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BenefitsLink > Q&A Columns >

Who's the Employer?

Answers are provided by S. Derrin Watson, Esq.

S. Derrin Watson, Esq.
Welcome to the column!

Employers who sponsor pension, profit-sharing, ESOP and other tax-qualified retirement plans are encouraged to ask questions here about:

  • Employee/Independent Contractor Issues
  • Leased Employees
  • Controlled Groups
  • Trades or Businesses Under Common Control
  • Affiliated Service Groups

Answers are provided by S. Derrin Watson, Esq., of Goleta, California. Mr. Watson lectures widely on these subjects, and is the system operator of the Pension Information eXchange BBS. He is the author of Who's the Employer-- A Guide to Employer and Aggregation Issues Affecting Qualified Plans (click for details).

New: view these Q&As by topic (click).


Q&A 299: Credit Unions Under New Common Control Rules
December 29, 2008

Q&A 298: 5th edition of Who's the Employer Coming Soon
December 13, 2008

Q&A 297: Room for Reasonable Compensation?
December 3, 2008

Q&A 296: Parental Attribution Bypasses Spousal Exception
November 28, 2008

Q&A 295: Section 267 Rules Not Needed When Section 707 Rules Are Enough to Aggregate Corporation and Limited Partnership
July 25, 2008

Q&A 294: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished: Retirement Contributions for a Butler or Other Domestic
September 21, 2007

Q&A 293: Determination of Controlled Group Status; Is It a Question That Should Be Handled by a Lawyer?
September 12, 2007

Q&A 292: 1 Corporation Plus 1 Individual Shareholder Plus 1 Subsidiary Can Equal 1 Controlled Group
September 8, 2007

Q&A 291: Shared Employee or Unrelated Employee?
September 3, 2007

Q&A 290: Effect of HCE Status on Deferrals
August 11, 2007

Q&A 289: Foreign Compensation
August 24, 2006

Q&A 288: Profit and Nonprofit Under Common Control?
July 11, 2006

Q&A 287: Check All Types of Attribution
July 5, 2006

Q&A 285: Compensation for Controlled Groups
June 30, 2006

Q&A 284: Controlled Groups and Welfare Benefit Plans
June 29, 2006

Q&A 283: Coverage Testing for Controlled Groups
December 7, 2005

Q&A 282: Predecessor Employers Under Proposed 415 Regulations
December 6, 2005

Q&A 280: Post-Severance Compensation Rules Appreciated
July 9, 2005

Q&A 279: Oops! Proposed 415(h) Regulations Include a Mistake
July 7, 2005

Q&A 278: Top-Heavy Multiple Employer Plans
June 2, 2005

Q&A 277: Audits of Multiple Employer Plans
May 31, 2005

Q&A 276: "What are the functions of management?" and Other Homework Problems
May 4, 2005

Q&A 275: Attribution Mechanics
April 27, 2005

Q&A 274: 79.9% Isn't 80%; But Wait-- There's More!
March 31, 2005

Q&A 273: Attribution Ends at the Courthouse
December 8, 2004

Q&A 272: Disregarded FSO
December 1, 2004

Q&A 271: No Double Family Attribution
November 30, 2004

Q&A 270: Proposed Regulations Applying Section 414 to Tax-Exempt Organizations
November 15, 2004

Q&A 269: Lack of Data Yields Lack of Answers
October 15, 2004

Q&A 268: HCE LLC Attribution
October 14, 2004

Q&A 266: Common Control Might Not Require Coverage
September 25, 2004

Q&A 265: PEO Write-offs and More
May 11, 2004

Q&A 264: SIMPLEs and Qualified Plans Don't Mix
May 7, 2004

Q&A 263: 1099 for Bonus Only
May 4, 2004

Q&A 262: How Can I Aggregate Thee? Let Me Count the Ways.
April 30, 2004

Q&A 261: Subsidiary Employees Left In The Cold
April 24, 2004

Q&A 260: First Look at Rev. Proc. 2003-86
November 25, 2003

Q&A 259: Trusts and Losing Businesses
September 10, 2003

Q&A 258: Excluding Outside Salespeople
August 29, 2003

Q&A 257: Small Plan Audits and IRC 414(c)
June 21, 2003

Q&A 256: Hours in Controlled Groups
June 20, 2003

Q&A 255: Effective Control, But No Ceegar
June 20, 2003

Q&A 254: LLC Members as Employees
April 8, 2003

Q&A 253: Change in the Employer
February 27, 2003

Q&A 252: Half-Year Exclusion for ASGs
February 22, 2003

Q&A 251: Excluding "Leased" Employees
February 22, 2003

Q&A 250: PEO to Client Plan
February 10, 2003

Q&A 249: Comments by IRS Officials at Los Angeles ASPA-IRS Conference
February 8, 2003

Q&A 248: HCEs in controlled groups
January 27, 2003

Q&A 247: Leased Employees Represented by Collective Bargaining Unit
January 18, 2003

Q&A 246: PEOs in Controlled Groups
January 16, 2003

Q&A 245: Most Frequently Asked Controlled Group Question
January 3, 2003

Q&A 244: Derrin Watson-- Employee or Independent Contractor?
December 31, 2002

Q&A 243: Foreign Independent Contractor or Employee
December 17, 2002

Q&A 242: Multiple Family Attribution
December 11, 2002

Q&A 241: Controlled Groups and Loan Defaults
December 11, 2002

Q&A 240: Controlled Groups and Loans
December 6, 2002

Q&A 239: Incorporated Officer
November 26, 2002

Q&A 238: Professional Service Corporation Exemption to the Rescue
November 15, 2002

Q&A 237: Differing Provisions In Multiple Employer Plan
November 14, 2002

Q&A 236: Attribution Adds Owners, Not Shares
November 13, 2002

Q&A 235: What's a Trade or Business Under IRC 414(c)?
November 13, 2002

Q&A 234: Progress Report: Who's the Employer, 3rd Edition
October 29, 2002

Q&A 233: WSJ Forgets ASG Rules
October 2, 2002

Q&A 232: Management Company Might Be PEO
September 19, 2002

Q&A 231: Regularly Providing Services as an A-Organization
September 10, 2002

Q&A 230: Common Control in Partnerships
September 6, 2002

Q&A 229: Overlapping Groups and Filing Requirements
September 3, 2002

Q&A 228: Status of Third Edition of Book
September 3, 2002

Q&A 227: Controlled Groups Without Employees
August 29, 2002

Q&A 226: Collapsing an ASG
August 23, 2002

Q&A 225: W-2, 1099, or Both?
August 15, 2002

Q&A 224: Bury Your Controlled Group Problems in Vogel Fertilizer
August 9, 2002

Q&A 223: Attribution From Entities Under Different Rules
August 8, 2002

Q&A 222: Employee for Exclusion Rules
August 6, 2002

Q&A 221: Inadequate Facts Lead To Inadequate Answers
August 5, 2002

Q&A 220: Rev. Proc. 2002-21-- Where Are We Now?
July 31, 2002

Q&A 219: Employee for B-Org HCE Purposes
June 25, 2002

Q&A 218: Multiple Employer Plan Involving Controlled Group
July 22, 2002

Q&A 217: HCE Attribution from Trusts
July 19, 2002

Q&A 216: What Is a Management Function?
July 19, 2002

Q&A 215: Change in Status and Top Heavy Minimums
July 17, 2002

Q&A 214: Domestic and Business Not Aggregated
July 15, 2002

Q&A 213: ASG with Separate Plans
July 11, 2002

Q&A 212: EGTRRA and Controlled Groups
July 10, 2002

Q&A 211: No Back Office Employees in PEO Multiple Employer Plan
July 10, 2002

Q&A 210: Third Edition of 'Who's The Employer' Book Coming Soon
July 8, 2002

Q&A 209: Client Termination In PEO Plan
July 4, 2002

Q&A 208: Expense Sharing Arrangements As ASGs
July 3, 2002

Q&A 207: No Sibling Attribution In Controlled Groups
July 1, 2002

Q&A 206: Proprietorship as Partner in an Emergency Medical Partnership
July 1, 2002

Q&A 205: Illegal Aliens and the Supreme Court
June 24, 2002

Q&A 204: "Safe Harbor" Leased Employee Plans After Rev. Proc. 2002-21
June 21, 2002

Q&A 203: Laser Surgery Center in ASG
June 19, 2002

Q&A 202: Are Sole Proprietorship and 60%-Owned Corporation Subject to 415(h)?
June 19, 2002

Q&A 201: Common Control Depends on Controlled Group Type
June 18, 2002

Q&A 200: How Derrin Watson Would Fix Rev. Proc. 2002-21
June 14, 2002

Q&A 199: Temp Firms as PEOs
June 14, 2002

Q&A 198: Hospital as PEO
June 12, 2002

Q&A 197: Independent Contractors on Health Plan
June 12, 2002

Q&A 196: Testing a PEO Multiple Employer Plan
June 12, 2002

Q&A 195: PEOs and Retirement Deductions
June 5, 2002

Q&A 194: Excluding Amish Workers
June 5, 2002

Q&A 193: Handling Assets of a Client Organization's Terminating 401(k) Plan
June 4, 2002

Q&A 192: Excluding Workers by Classification
June 4, 2002

Q&A 191: Rev. Proc. 2002-21 and Leased Employees
June 3, 2002

Q&A 190: Employee Becomes Treated as Independent Contractor
June 3, 2002

Q&A 189: Commissioned Insurance Sales
May 31, 2002

Q&A 188: Rev. Proc. 2002-21 and Employee Status
May 29, 2002

Q&A 187: Common Control and 401(a)(26)
May 28, 2002

Q&A 186: Client Organizations and Recipients
May 27, 2002

Q&A 185: Temporary Employees Lose Under Rev. Proc. 2002-21
May 27, 2002

Q&A 184: Multiple Employer Plan or Multiple Plans?
May 18, 2002

Q&A 183: Definition of Compensation in a Multiple Employer Plan
May 15, 2002

Q&A 182: Adopting a Single Employer PEO Plan After May 13, 2002
May 13, 2002

Q&A 181: Are Clergy Members Considered Self-Employed?
May 13, 2002

Q&A 180: Over Half Isn't At Least 80%
May 13, 2002

Q&A 179: Is a CO Required to Cosponsor a PEO Multiple Employer Plan Under Rev. Proc. 2002-21?
May 9, 2002

Q&A 178: PEOs and Welfare Plans After Rev. Proc. 2002-21
May 9, 2002

Q&A 177: Rev. Proc. 2002-21 Deadlines
May 8, 2002

Q&A 176: Entering or Leaving a Multiple Employer Plan
May 7, 2002

Q&A 175: PEO Client Maintaining Its Own Plan; Why the PEO Likely Isn't the Employer
May 7, 2002

Q&A 174: Bootstrapping Employer Status
May 7, 2002

Q&A 173: Rev. Proc. 2002-21 Relief For Multiple Employer Plans
May 6, 2002

Q&A 172: PEO Plans and Determination Letters
May 6, 2002

Q&A 171: Rev. Proc. 2002-21 and the Separate CO Plan
May 6, 2002

Q&A 170: PEO Spinoff Plan under Rev. Proc. 2002-21
May 6, 2002

Q&A 169: Employee Status in PEO Multiple Employer Plan
May 4, 2002

Q&A 168: Mutiple Employer PEO Issues
May 1, 2002

Q&A 167: Attribution Through Grantor Trust
May 1, 2002

Q&A 166: Additional Guidance on Rev. Proc. 2002-21
April 29, 2002

Q&A 165: Rev. Proc. 2002-21 Transition Rule Revisited; Other Compliance Problems
April 27, 2002

Q&A 164: Insurance ASG Issues; Referral of Clients Means "Regularly Associated"?
April 26, 2002

Q&A 162: Rev Proc 2002-21; Relief for the Compliant
April 25, 2002

Q&A 161: Counting Shareholders
April 22, 2002

Q&A 160: Voting Power Creating Controlled Group
April 19, 2002

Q&A 159: ESOP as Majority Owner
April 18, 2002

Q&A 158: Exclusion of ESOP Stock
April 16, 2002

Q&A 157: HCEs and ASGs
April 15, 2002

Q&A 156: Attribution Through Children's Trust
April 15, 2002

Q&A 155: What About Effect of IRS Notice 99-6 on Single-Member LLCs Not Taxed As Corporations?
April 12, 2002

Q&A 154: Single Member LLCs/Limited Partners as Employees
April 10, 2002

Q&A 153: Watson's Take on PEO Controversy
April 9, 2002

Q&A 152: B-Orgs and Significant Services
April 8, 2002

Q&A 151: Convertible Stock Constituting An Option
April 6, 2002

Q&A 150: Royalties as Compensation
April 1, 2002

Q&A 149: Husband and Wife, Each Practicing Medicine as Sole Proprietors
March 29, 2002

Q&A 148: Treatment of LLCs Under the ASG Rules
March 26, 2002

Q&A 147: What's the Difference Between Sections 267 and 318?
March 25, 2002

Q&A 146: Is 267 or 318 Attribution Used for Affiliated Service Groups?
March 24, 2002

Q&A 145: ASG Arising from Shared Administrative Functions?
March 21, 2002

Q&A 144: ASG Attribution to Entities
March 19, 2002

Q&A 143: Excluding ESOP Stock
March 18, 2002

Q&A 142: Leasing Doctors
March 17, 2002

Q&A 141: Consequences of Separate Status for Partnerships; Owner-Employee Rules
March 16, 2002

Q&A 140: Professional Partnerships
March 13, 2002

Q&A 139: What's an Entity?
February 11, 2002

Q&A 138: Community Ownership Affects HCE Status
January 11, 2002

Q&A 137: State Law and Professional Employer Organizations
January 10, 2002

Q&A 136: Breaks in Service for 414(n)(4)(B) Service
December 28, 2001

Q&A 135: Lease to Own and Code Section 414(n)(4)(B)
December 27, 2001

Q&A 132: Foreign Parents of Multilevel Group
November 21, 2001

Q&A 131: Marital Attribution Strikes Again!
September 26, 2001

Q&A 130: Mortgage Company as Service Organization
September 18, 2001

Q&A 129: No Mandatory Coverage for Housekeeper
September 14, 2001

Q&A 127: Merged Business Can Be Separate From Earlier Businesses
September 11, 2001

Q&A 126: Proprietorship and Corporation not an ASG
September 11, 2001

Q&A 125: Filing for Midyear Changes in Controlled Group Status
September 8, 2001

Q&A 124: Stock Options and Leased Employees
September 5, 2001

Q&A 123: Controlled Groups, Common Control and SEPs
September 4, 2001

Q&A 122: Use Of LLCs To Change Employee Status
August 30, 2001

Q&A 121: Dentists as Investors
August 28, 2001

Q&A 120: SIMPLEs and ASGs
August 16, 2001

Q&A 119: Trustees as Managers
August 15, 2001

Q&A 118: Effect of S Corp Status on Controlled Group Determination
August 8, 2001

Q&A 117: Who Takes the Work Tax Credits If We Use a Staffing Firm?
August 7, 2001

Q&A 116: Company Splitup
July 9, 2001

Q&A 115: Avoiding Controlled Groups By Staying Unincorporated?
June 28, 2001

Q&A 114: Attribution Arising From a Lien?
June 27, 2001

Q&A 113: Community Ownership of Attributed Stock?
June 26, 2001

Q&A 112: Family Management Company
June 25, 2001

Q&A 111: Marriage as Common Control
June 12, 2001

Q&A 110: Attribution to Entities
June 11, 2001

Q&A 109: Contingent Beneficiary As Shareholder-Employee
June 4, 2001

Q&A 108: Doctor as Management Firm
May 31, 2001

Q&A 107: Partner as Affiliated Service Group Entity
May 29, 2001

Q&A 106: Testing an Ending Controlled Group
May 25, 2001

Q&A 105: Leased Employees and Self-Employed Medical Reimbursement Plans
May 25, 2001

Q&A 104: Substantial Presence Test for Residency Status
May 24, 2001

Q&A 103: Exclusion of Nonresident Aliens
May 24, 2001

Q&A 102: Construction Management Function Group
May 23, 2001

Q&A 101: Parental Attribution
May 23, 2001

Q&A 100: Illegal Aliens As Employees
May 22, 2001

Q&A 99: Avoiding the Substantially Full-Time Rule for Leased Employees
May 17, 2001

Q&A 98: Grandchildren as Highly Compensated Employees
May 15, 2001

Q&A 97: Directors As Managers
May 5, 2001

Q&A 96: Ignoring the Leasing Company
May 2, 2001

Q&A 95: Inlaws as HCEs
April 30, 2001

Q&A 94: Are Brothers and Sisters Related Parties?
April 16, 2001

Q&A 93: Is Attributed Stock Counted Once, or Twice?
April 11, 2001

Q&A 92: Triple Attribution In Controlled Group
April 2, 2001

Q&A 91: Restricted Stock and HCEs
March 26, 2001

Q&A 90: Multiple Restaurants; One Plan?
March 26, 2001

Q&A 89: Does an Independent Contractor Agreement Matter?
March 26, 2001

Q&A 88: 414(m) Proposed Regs Withdrawn?
March 21, 2001

Q&A 87: Multiple A-Orgs in an Affiliated Service Group
March 21, 2001

Q&A 86: Handling "Leased" Employees on 5500 Forms
March 21, 2001

Q&A 85: Nonprofits and Controlled Groups
March 19, 2001

Q&A 84: Plan For Independent Contractor Truckers
March 12, 2001

Q&A 83: Stepchildren Under Attribution Rules
March 8, 2001

Q&A 82: Top Heavy Rules for Plan Covering Leased Executives
February 16, 2001

Q&A 81: Overlapping Groups and Options in Family Situations
February 15, 2001

Q&A 80: Billing Corporation as B-Org?
February 14, 2001

Q&A 79: Excluding Employees of Controlled Group Members
February 14, 2001

Q&A 78: 415 Limits with Similar Businesses
February 14, 2001

Q&A 77: Equipment Leases and Affiliated Service Groups
February 12, 2001

Q&A 76: Having Just a Single Customer Doesn't Mean Aggregation is Required
February 12, 2001

Q&A 75: How to Handle Ex-Employees After Spinoff to Form an Unrelated Company
February 7, 2001

Q&A 74: LLC Member's Compensation for 401(k) Purposes
January 23, 2001

Q&A 73: Does a plan automatically cover employees of an affiliated employer?
January 18, 2001

Q&A 72: Look Both Ways When Crossing Railroad Tracks or When Analyzing Affiliated Service Groups
January 3, 2001

Q&A 71: Community Property Constituting Direct Ownership
December 29, 2000

Q&A 70: De Minimis Shared Employee
December 22, 2000

Q&A 69: HCE Attribution Rules Between Parent and Child
December 21, 2000

Q&A 68: Owner as Leased Employee
December 19, 2000

Q&A 67: Parent-Child Attribution
December 14, 2000

Q&A 66: 50% Isn't More Than 50%
Dec 13, 2000

Q&A 65: LLC Member as Employer
December 6, 2000

Q&A 64: 401(k) Plans Using Professional Employer Organizations-- Miscellaneous Questions
December 1, 2000

Q&A 63: Co-sponsorship of plans
November 22, 2000

Q&A 62: Common Control Sponsor Withdrawal
October 24, 2000

Q&A 61: Attendant as Independent Contractor
October 23, 2000

Q&A 60: Attribution for Highly Compensated Employees
October 7, 2000

Q&A 59: Current Status of "Dual Employer" Arrangements for PEOs
October 3, 2000

Q&A 58: Second Edition of Who's the Employer
August 31, 2000

Q&A 57: Re the Earlier Shared Employees Q&A -- What About the Proposed Regulations?
August 24, 2000

Q&A 56: Shared Employees
August 22, 2000

Q&A 55: Are rights of first refusal considered "options"?
July 26, 2000

Q&A 54: Attribution to Mother-in-Law?
July 24, 2000

Q&A 53: Controlled group determination for ESOP that covers owner of plan sponsor
July 20, 2000

Q&A 52: Who's the Employer of an LLC Member?
June 21, 2000

Q&A 51: Transfer of Employment from Fifty Percent Subsidiary to Parent Corporation
June 14, 2000

Q&A 50: SIMPLE IRAs and Related Employers
June 14, 2000

Q&A 49: Statutory Employees
May 17, 2000

Q&A 48: Employees Working for Franchisor
April 13, 2000

Q&A 47: Sole Proprietorship and Affiliated Service Group
April 11, 2000

Q&A 46: Employee Becomes an Independent Contractor
April 11, 2000

Q&A 45: Wholly-owned subsidiaries of controlled groups
March 16, 2000

Q&A 44: Attribution at age 18 or 21?
February 18, 2000

Q&A 43: PEO Sponsoring a Cafeteria Plan
January 25, 2000

Q&A 42: Combination of leasing company plan and recipient's plan
January 19, 2000

Q&A 41: Repeal of Family Aggregation Does Not Eliminate Controlled Group
January 18, 2000

Q&A 40: Management Function Group and Common Control Group
December 10, 1999

Q&A 39: More on options
December 8, 1999

Q&A 38: Should we treat these two as a controlled group just to be safe?
December 7, 1999

Q&A 37: Is a Professional Employer Organization a "co-employer" with its customer companies?
November 24, 1999

Q&A 36: Deduction Limits for ASG
November 19, 1999

Q&A 35: Controlled Groups and SIMPLE IRAs
November 18, 1999

Q&A 34: LLC and Employee Leasing Firm - How to Cover the LLC members?
November 4, 1999

Q&A 33: Effect of ASG on SARSEP
November 3, 1999

Q&A 32: I have a foreign parent with subsidiaries in the U.S. and foreign subsidiaries - how many do I include?
November 3, 1999

Q&A 31: Overlapping Groups
October 29, 1999

Q&A 30: Corp and LLCs as Controlled Group
October 29, 1999

Q&A 29: What does it mean to be part of a controlled group
July 28, 1999

Q&A 28: Parent-Subsidiary Groups
July 14, 1999

Q&A 27: Classic ASG with multiple plans
June 22, 1999

Q&A 26: Using options to create controlled groups
June 19, 1999

Q&A 25: Foreign parent of controlled group
May 3, 1999

Q&A 24: Employee on someone else's payroll
April 19, 1999

Q&A 23: Family Attribution
April 8, 1999

Q&A 22: Qualified Plan as Shareholder for Controlled Group
March 30, 1999

Q&A 21: Principal business of a management organization
March 25, 1999

Q&A 20: Hours of Service for Leased Employees
March 25, 1999

Q&A 19: Tax Exempt Organizations and Common Control
March 22, 1999

Q&A 18: Can Options Break Up Controlled Groups?
March 19, 1999

Q&A 17: Transfer Within A Controlled Group
March 16, 1999

Q&A 16: Management function group and controlled group
March 16, 1999

Q&A 15: Parent child attribution rules
March 11, 1999

Q&A 14: Multiple 75% corporations
March 10, 1999

Q&A 13: Audit Guidelines and Independent Contractors
March 6, 1999

Q&A 12: Separation from Service for Pension Plan in CG Situation
March 4, 1999

Q&A 11: Counting Hours in Lease to Own
March 2, 1999

Q&A 10: Different Employee Definitions for Different Agencies
March 1, 1999

Q&A 9: Controlled Groups in Marriages Continued
February 26, 1999

Q&A 8: Separation from Service in Controlled Group
February 26, 1999

Q&A 7: Attribution from Options Granted by Corporation
February 26, 1999

Q&A 6: Common Control with Sole Proprietorship and Corporation
February 26, 1999

Q&A 5: Existing plan with new staffing firm
February 26, 1999

Q&A 4: Staffing Firms as Common Law Employers
February 26, 1999

Q&A 3: Parent Child Attribution and family aggregation
February 26, 1999

Q&A 2: Recipient Offsetting Staffing Firm Contributions
February 25, 1999


Important notice: Answers are provided as general guidance on the subjects covered in the question and are not provided as legal advice to the questioner's situation. Any legal issues should be reviewed by your legal counsel to apply the law to the particular facts of your situation. The laws, regulations and court decisions in this area change frequently. Answers are believed to be correct as of the posting dates shown. The completeness or accuracy of a particular answer may be affected by changes in the laws, regulations or court decisions that occur after the date on which that Q&A is posted.
Copyright 1999-2008 S. Derrin Watson, Esq.
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