Thank you for your thoughts!!

1. Since this plan has a 12/31 plan year end, is the 2023 5500 filing date 7/31/2024 as usual? Or is it 6/30/2024 (7 months after the termination date)?

2. Or do you file 2023 by 7/31/2024 and then for the 2024 year by 12/31/2024 (7 months after all assets were distributed)? 

3. Or are there some other filing due dates?

Thank you!

The physician retired in June 2025. He let us know he retired in November 2025. So we had him terminate the plan effective 12/31/2025.

They had 3 employees terminate employment in late 2024. We provided benefit elections to the 3 and they returned the executed benefit elections. In early May 2025, we provided an instruction letter to the physician who is also the sole trustee of the plan to distribute benefits as the participants had elected. Instead of paying their benefits from plan assets he paid them from his company checking account. This even though the instruction letter specifically told him to pay these benefits from the plan.

At this time we want to wrap up this termination by distributing to all remaining participants. We thought it would be a matter of reimbursing the company from plan assets for those participants that were mistakenly paid from the company checking account. However, we just found out that his company checking account no longer exists.

What would you do?

Thanks.

Company A is sold to Company B.  Company A employees are now Company B employees.

No plan merger happening.  Company A will terminate their 401k plan, but not for a few months.

Can former Company A employees take distributions from Company A 401k plan immediately since they are no longer Company A employees?  Eventually they will with when the plan termination date is decided, but can they do so before then?

Thank you.

I've assisted plan termination for plans with MPP source however I don't recall sending a 204(h) notice.  If a 401(k) plans is terminating and if there is a MPP source does it require a 204(h) notice and if yes, who should be sending this notice? 

(1) can the plan set a termination date before April 1st?

(2) If we can set that date earlier, (say March 1st) the 3% safe harbor contributions can stop as of Match 1st, even though individuals are on payroll through April 1st?

Thank you

One of the plans is scheduled for termination due to the stock sale, but it has come to our attention that the acquiring company does not offer a 401(k) plan. Typically, under such circumstances, the plan should terminate prior to the sale date, with all contributions ceasing accordingly. However, in this case, while the stock sale date is set for September 30, 2025, employee contributions are expected to continue until December 29, 2025. Could you please confirm whether these post-sale contributions can be accepted? Additionally, if there are any specific compliance considerations or steps we need to take in this scenario. 

The small business 401k plan and business fiscal year are 7/1 - 6/30.  The business was sold on October 1.  The status of the small biz 401k plan was not addressed in the sales agreement (crazy, i know.  We just found out about the sale today, almost 2 months later).

Theres more involved but an initial question:  Who would make the decisions on if/when to terminate the small biz 401k (I do not believe a plan merger is being considered)?  The plan document and trust agreement still show the small biz owners as the trustee.  

Thank  you

S is in a parent-sub controlled group with 6 subsidiaries: C, D, E, F, & G.

S will sell to B all of S's assets in subs C through F. All of those subs' employees will work for B post-sale. At an uncertain future date, S will sell G's assets to B. At no point will S become part of B's controlled group. 

S participates in a multi-employer DC Plan with Z. They are the only two participating employers. S controls all aspects of the Plan. S owns a small stake in Z, but not enough to bring Z into S's controlled group. S's plan operates on a fiscal year, ending on 9/30. The plan uses a NEC SH. The plan will continue NEC contributions for the upcoming plan year.

If S were to terminate its plan on 10/20, the date of closing, or shortly thereafter would it qualify for the IRC § 410(b)(6)(C) short final year exception for the NEC SH, despite no change in controlled group?

Likewise, S will no longer own any part of Z as of 12/31. Does this change your analysis at all? 

I'm stumped on this because Treas. Reg. § 1.410(b)-2(f) states that an asset sale qualifies under 410(b)(6)(C), however Section 410(b)(6)(C) also states that a change in controlled group must occur for the exception to apply. It just does not make a lot of sense for an asset sale to qualify under 410(b)(6)(C) when asset sales infrequently result in controlled group changes, as the seller remains intact immediately post-closing.

My hunch is that 410(b)(6)(C) does not apply for either the 10/20 asset sale because no change in controlled group will occur, and that the sale of S's interest in Z to Z's other owners does not alter this analysis.

Distributions will be made in October.  Two Participants are over 73 and are required to take RMD.

If all participants choose a lump sum distribution, are the excess assets allocated to the PVAB minus the value of the RMD, or are the excess assets allocated to each participant's PVAB?

In the second case, the over 73 participants would receive a larger share of excess assets.

Plan sponsor is yet to start the termination process however they have questions regarding profit sharing and safe harbor.  There is a balance of $3000 in the forfeiture account.

1. Are they required to make a profit sharing contribution for 2025 plan year (10/30/2025 - or whatever date is prior to that for termination of the plan) They only had payroll for the month of December 2024- they are anticipating that the final 3% safe harbor for 2025 plan year would only be approx. $1500. is that true? 
2. They haven't determined the termination date yet. 

Plan is terminating and the termination date is 07/31/2025.  The Plan sponsor wants to do a annual employer match true -up contribution which usually occurs in Jan for the pervious year.  They calculate the match throughout the year on a pay-check-by paycheck basis.

1) Since the plan is terminating I believe they should calculate and contribute to the plan for the period Jan 01-July 31 it will be for a short plan year correct? 

2) Should they wait until next year to do the contribution or can they do the calculation now and contribute? 

The plan termination date is 06/30/2025 however is it okay that the plan details report notes 12/31/2025 as the testing end date? 

Terminating plan has a 3(12) agreement and the plan sponsor would like to know if they require to submit any special document to disable this service .  I've never come across 3(21) agreement does the plan sponsor need to complete any special requirement?  

8 participants had 415(C) excess since they already rolled the funds into the acquiring company plan the correction could not take place at the terminated plan.  The new RK has sent a check payable to the terminated plan.  Aren't 415 violation able to to be processed/returned from any plan or should we have the check deposited into the terminated plan and then cut a check to the participants ( excess amount)? 

8 participants had 415(C) excess since they already rolled the funds into the acquiring company plan the correction could not take place at the terminated plan.  The new RK has sent a check payable to the terminated plan.  Aren't 415 violation able to to be processed/returned from any plan or should we have the check deposited into the terminated plan and then cut a check to the participants ( excess amount)? 

If a participant is over 65, do they have a Required Minimum Distribution (RMD)?

What if funds are rolled over into a 401 (k) plan?

Any help[ is greatly appreciated.

DPSRich.

An amendment was executed that froze all benefit accruals and terminated the plan effective December 31, 2023. It is now past December 31, 2024. I know that unless there were reasons for the delay, all assets needed to be distributed by December 31, 2024. In this case, there were no reasons and it is now after December 31, 2024.

Question:  I would think that as of now (January 15, 2025) we would have an active plan with benefits frozen as of December 31, 2023.

Does anyone disagree? agree?

Thanks.

When you are terminating a plan, the participant has to be given the option to get a distribution, or roll over the funds. But TIAA "requires" (or did require) the participants themselves to call TIAA if they wanted to surrender. And participants frequently won't bother to do this in a timely fashion. 

Do you know how they handle this now? And do you by any chance have the contact information for a person at TIAA who actually KNOWS something and is willing to discuss how a plqan termination can be handled in this situation so that a final 5500 can be filed?

Thanks in advance! 

Arguably, the resolution can suffice, at least temporarily, to legitimately establish plan termination date, and plan can subsequently be formally amended to terminate, update for SECURE, etc.? Or is that a hard no? We always do plan amendment by the day before the formal termination date, but I believe that facts and circumstances can allow otherwise if the resolution, notification to employees, etc., are sufficiently detailed.

Thanks.

Plan that is terminating the re-allocation of the forfeiture balance occurred after 180 days of the participants initial distribution, is it mandatory the participants should receive a second communication along with the special tax notice since the participants are receiving the additional money post 180 days of their initial distribution? 

Is there any resource of information can be shared in reference to the special tax notice? 

Do the lump sum payouts have to end on bankruptcy filing? or can the lump sum payouts still be made if over 80% funded?

For plans that are terminating should the Plan sponsor complete the good faith amendment ( SECURE 2.0 and CARES)? what if they have not done the amendment? 

Thank you. 

Also, since there is a posting of $83 into the terminated plan will the plan sponsor require to amended the 5500? 

Thank you. 

Preparing the final 5500. 

Do we need to change the address on the 5500 to the home address of the plan sponsor or leave as is (which is the company address)?

Thoughts?  Thank you!

So, clearly a controlled group now. Corporation A crediting service with Corporation B, etc., etc.

Corporation A wants to now terminate Corporation B plan. But this brings in successor plan rule. How is this mess typically dealt with? 

Good Evening!  looking for help on Puerto Rico plan termination.  This is the first time I'm handling a Puerto Rico Plan that needs to be Terminated.  I would like to under how different this is from a regular plan termination specially when it comes to a 1) forced distribution for the unresponsive participants. 

2) Any special notice that needs to be sent out to the participants? 

3) Can Participants be rolled over to an IRA account? should that be Puerto Rico Individual Retirement Account only? 

4) What are the option available for a participant that has loan? 

5) how does 5500 and Non-discrimination testing work?

Thanks

I am assuming we will need to:

1. Amend the plan to state a termination date

2. Ensure all assets of the plan are distributed properly

3. Maybe file a Form 5300?

4. File a final Form 5500

As per the new DOL regulatory the requirement for annuities has been loosed is there thing that can be shared what those  requirements are? any DOL guidelines links that any one share? 

Small Cash Balance Plan fewer than 10 current and former participants with balance, owner died last year, his widow inherited the shares (she is now the 100% owner and the Plan Trustee she also has a pending death benefit as beneficiary) and the business has been running under a prior contract but that contact is running out so all employees remaining employees were given notice and end of June will be the last payroll.

The company is staying in business through the end of the year at least to wrap any loose ends and such and for compliance reasons terminating effective December 31 might make the most sense from a compliance and testing standpoint. The plan allows for distributions upon termination of employment so what happens if we pay out all the participants before we go through a formal PBGC termination?

The plan is well funded all PBGC premiums are up to date and there is a small surplus that will be allocated to participants per the document. I've never done a PBGC termination after all participants are paid out, assuming they can get all terminated employees paid out relatively quickly. Is that going to be a problem with the PBGC?

I know you are not suppose to payout active employees during the PBGC review and termination process but these will all be terminated vested as of 6/30/24. So it seems we could pay them all out.

The termination process will include purchase (by the plan) of a group annuity and lump sum offers to as many participants as possible, and then execute the formal termination.  The best guess is this will result in a 7-digit surplus. 

First, the sponsor has paid expenses (actuary, auditor, attorney, etc.) directly (from the company, not from the trust) for many years.  Prior to executing the formal termination, the sponsor wants to use up some of the surplus by having the trust reimburse the company for as many of these expenses as possible.  So far, we see nothing in the document that will prohibit this.  However, is there any limit to this?  Could the trust reimburse expenses from the prior 5 years?  10 years?  More?  Do you know any prior examples or PLRs that might address this?

Second, our assumption is that any such reimbursement is NOT a reversion.  Is that a reasonable conclusion?

I'm looking for some information on Invoice reimbursement, generally the balance in the forfeiture can be used to pay invoice and re-allocate to participants or even make employer contribution.  Incase the Plan does not have invoice and they want to use the funds in the forfeiture to reimburse a pervious invoice that they paid I believe they can do it however  should this be within 1 year of the payment or can it be anything up to 5-6 years?

In reviewing the plan document I'm unable to find any information not sure if the plan document talks about this. 

Thanks