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Frozen 403b assets rolled into 401K

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Hey Reader(s),

I am fairly new in the benefits world but I have come into my career knowing a little bit more about 401k plans vs. 403b plans. I have now run into this situation: 403b plan that we "had", was "frozen" and the assets were rolled into a 401K plan. We have been filing a 5500 for the 401k but not the 403b.

Now we have "people" telling us that we need/needed to file a 5500 for the 403B. Does that make sense?

Thanks

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Hey Reader(s),

I am fairly new in the benefits world but I have come into my career knowing a little bit more about 401k plans vs. 403b plans. I have now run into this situation: 403b plan that we "had", was "frozen" and the assets were rolled into a 401K plan. We have been filing a 5500 for the 401k but not the 403b.

Now we have "people" telling us that we need/needed to file a 5500 for the 403B. Does that make sense?

Thanks

1. Was the 403b plan subject to ERISA, i.e, did the employer make contributions to the plan from its own funds? If the answer is no then a 5500 form was never required.

2. Are you asking if the 5500 needed to be filed for plan years after the assets were tranferred to the 401k plan? If the answer is yes there is no requirement to file a 5500 if the 403b plan had no other assets.

3. Who are the people who are telling you that you need to file a 5500?

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Hey Reader(s),

I am fairly new in the benefits world but I have come into my career knowing a little bit more about 401k plans vs. 403b plans. I have now run into this situation: 403b plan that we "had", was "frozen" and the assets were rolled into a 401K plan. We have been filing a 5500 for the 401k but not the 403b.

Now we have "people" telling us that we need/needed to file a 5500 for the 403B. Does that make sense?

Thanks

1. Was the 403b plan subject to ERISA, i.e, did the employer make contributions to the plan from its own funds? If the answer is no then a 5500 form was never required.

2. Are you asking if the 5500 needed to be filed for plan years after the assets were tranferred to the 401k plan? If the answer is yes there is no requirement to file a 5500 if the 403b plan had no other assets.

3. Who are the people who are telling you that you need to file a 5500?

Thanks mjb....

1. Yes the plan is/was subject to ERISA.

2. Yes I guess I am asking, when the assets were transferred to the 401(K) do you still need to file a 5500 for the 403(b) plan...what would be the point?

3. Corp lawyer (which investment law is not a speciality of thiers) and a used-to-be Retirment Plan Administrator.....(my 2 cents - our old vendor did not have the best information and knowledge in Retirement Funds Field - Sorry - I won't say who it was to protect those who can't defend themselves)

Thanks for any information......appreciated.

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Thanks for the information.......I will post with my findings after I meet with our Board.

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How were assets "rolled" from the 403(b) into the 401(k) other than individually? Was there some kind of employer-level en masse transfer or merger? I didn't think that a merger of a 403(b) into a 401(k) was allowed.

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Hey Reader(s),

I am fairly new in the benefits world but I have come into my career knowing a little bit more about 401k plans vs. 403b plans. I have now run into this situation: 403b plan that we "had", was "frozen" and the assets were rolled into a 401K plan. We have been filing a 5500 for the 401k but not the 403b.

Now we have "people" telling us that we need/needed to file a 5500 for the 403B. Does that make sense?

Thanks

1. Was the 403b plan subject to ERISA, i.e, did the employer make contributions to the plan from its own funds? If the answer is no then a 5500 form was never required.

2. Are you asking if the 5500 needed to be filed for plan years after the assets were tranferred to the 401k plan? If the answer is yes there is no requirement to file a 5500 if the 403b plan had no other assets.

3. Who are the people who are telling you that you need to file a 5500?

Thanks mjb....

1. Yes the plan is/was subject to ERISA.

2. Yes I guess I am asking, when the assets were transferred to the 401(K) do you still need to file a 5500 for the 403(b) plan...what would be the point?

3. Corp lawyer (which investment law is not a speciality of thiers) and a used-to-be Retirment Plan Administrator.....(my 2 cents - our old vendor did not have the best information and knowledge in Retirement Funds Field - Sorry - I won't say who it was to protect those who can't defend themselves)

Thanks for any information......appreciated.

I share the concern Sieve expressed about 'merging' or other en masse transfer, 403b plan to 401k plan.

But the reason for a FINAL form 5500 as rcline46 correctly pointed out is so that the DoL has some record of what happened to those assets if at some point the DoL needs to assist an employee pursuing a claim for benefits not paid.

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I share the concerns about "rolling" the 403(b) assets into the 401(k); that's something that can be done be each individual but not at the plan level. But I'll also say that Benicialist may indeed be describing a situation where most or all participants did elect a rollover; I've seen it.

And yes, a final 5500 needs to be filed for the 403(b) and you're done...I guess there's an outstanding question as to whether 5500s had been filed at all, but there is a decent chance that the answer is yes, and a decent chance that the final 5500 was filed too. Remember that a 403(b) 5500 is just some very basic info about the sponsor and plan name; no asset information, and the "final" 5500 is not a big so Benicialist may be leaving out information that doesn't seem important.

But...there is a possible fly in the ointment. The IRS has made noise recently that a 403(b) isn't completed "terminated" until all contracts have been liquidated or rolled over, so in theory, if a participant or two failed to do something with their 403(b) contracts, the sponsor would have to keep filing 5500s, and under the new reporting rules, would also have to keep track of the assets...on these contracts that are "in the wind." I'm hoping that the IRS is just making a technical observation. There's no way they can enforce it and it's frankly of no concern to me because it's ridiculous. But there it is.

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I have a frozen 403B account that is just sitting out there.  I was trying to roll it over to my 401k or put it in a IRA.  Can my company just hold it until I turn 59 1/2?

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