nancy Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 We have a client who thought their CPA had been filing the 5500 for the last 27 years. No one (client or CPA) can find a copy of a form ever prepared. I searched Freeerisa and was unable to find any filings. Any suggestions? Do you think I really need to file 27 returns? I do have the records back to day one and I certainly would not mind the fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Preston Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 If you think any have EVER been filed, get a 2848 signed by the client and call the IRS to ask them if they have record of any EVER having been filed. It may take a while on hold and then you will be asked to fax the 2848 while on the phone, but they are very helpful. RatherBeGolfing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatherBeGolfing Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 What Mike said. Also, try searching through EFAST rather than a third party EFAST 5500 Search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG5150 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Is it a 1-participant plan? If so, and they prepared EZ's, you won't find them online. QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david rigby Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 EFAST does not have any forms prior to 2009. I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESOP Guy Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The strict legal answer is they should file all the forms it seems to me. However sort of like David's comment I have not seen any interest from anyone at the IRS or DOL to look at returns before EFAST2 returns. I guess it is a risk tolerance vs cost balancing act if you do less then all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin C Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Also, a 1-participant plan with assets under $250,000 isn't required to file. Going back that far, it used to be a lower threshold for filing, but I don't recall off-hand when it changed. If they were required to file a 5500 for 5500-SF and did not, the filing fee for the delinquent filer program for 27 filings is the same as for 2 filings. If the forms were prepared each year and just not filed, I would be inclined to file all of the late ones under the program, just to be safe. Even if they were not prepared at the time, the fees to get the forms done if you have good records should be much less than the potential late filing penalties. RatherBeGolfing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Mike Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I think PPA changed the asset threshold from $100,000 to $250,000 for plan years beginning in 2007. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatherBeGolfing Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, Kevin C said: If they were required to file a 5500 for 5500-SF and did not, the filing fee for the delinquent filer program for 27 filings is the same as for 2 filings. If the forms were prepared each year and just not filed, I would be inclined to file all of the late ones under the program, just to be safe. Even if they were not prepared at the time, the fees to get the forms done if you have good records should be much less than the potential late filing penalties. Agreed. If you are going to fix it, fix it all with one low user fee. I believe late EZ filings are also subject to a cap. The consulting fee for preparing 27 years of admin/returns might not be so low though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chc93 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 In the past, we have been successful in getting information on the last filed 5500, and even getting a copy of the last 5500 filed from the US Dept of Labor Public Disclosure Room, Room 1513, EBSA, 200 Constitution Ave NW, Washington DC 20210. They told us the last 5500 filed on the phone, but since we wanted a copy, we had to fax the request. Also don't need a power of attorney... public disclosure, after all. Don't know if the request will raise a flag, but if you intend to file the forms anyway, this shouldn't be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My 2 cents Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 38 minutes ago, chc93 said: In the past, we have been successful in getting information on the last filed 5500, and even getting a copy of the last 5500 filed from the US Dept of Labor Public Disclosure Room, Room 1513, EBSA, 200 Constitution Ave NW, Washington DC 20210. They told us the last 5500 filed on the phone, but since we wanted a copy, we had to fax the request. Also don't need a power of attorney... public disclosure, after all. Don't know if the request will raise a flag, but if you intend to file the forms anyway, this shouldn't be an issue. Asking for information on the last 5500 filed isn't going to get you anywhere if there had never been one filed! Always check with your actuary first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chc93 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 20 hours ago, My 2 cents said: Asking for information on the last 5500 filed isn't going to get you anywhere if there had never been one filed! Yes... but then if none is found, then you have pretty good assurance that none was ever filed. So can move forward with that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benconsulting Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Quote However sort of like David's comment I have not seen any interest from anyone at the IRS or DOL to look at returns before EFAST2 returns. We recently had a different experience. A pension plan was being audited for 2015 plan year. As part of the document request, the auditor noted that IRS had no record of 2008 filing. This was the last year of paper filing form 5500. We provided a copy and all was well. However, this was noted on the closing letter. So, YMMV. RatherBeGolfing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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