Belgarath Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I've always understood that these must be provided if you are eligible to defer, even if you choose not to. This is being questioned. I don't see any exemption as being available under the regs - I'm talking about an active, eligible employee, albeit with no account balance. Am I nuts, or missing something? Maybe just Monday fog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Presson Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I can't imagine that an active participant without a balance wouldn't be entitled to a copy of the SAR. How that person would be carved out of "participant" would be interesting. Prior BenefitsLink discussion: William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou S. Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I can't imagine why a participant with no balance would want a SAR, but as far as I know they are required to receive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESOP Guy Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, Lou S. said: I can't imagine why a participant with no balance would want a SAR, but as far as I know they are required to receive one. I can't imagine why I would want one and I always have a balance! hr for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgarath Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Thank you. As I have stated before, I think the SAR is one of the most completely useless disclosures ever. Nevertheless, I couldn't find any basis to support not sending one in this situation. hr for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I find the more appropriate question - how about an SAR for someone who was a participant but terminated and took their money? I terminate and roll my money out in January 2016. Now it's December 14, 2017, and the plan sponsor owes an SAR to all plan participants for 2016. Hopefully I haven't moved twice. I wish we could apply the idea that if someone's already paid out by the time you'd report them on an 8955-SSA, they don't need to be listed - apply that same logic to the distribution of the SAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Poje Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 somewhere I read recently there is even talk of eliminating it. of course, if you think about it everyone has access to the 5500 on the DOL website anyway, so the silly SAR form makes even less sense than it might have years ago. Bill Presson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgarath Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Yup. But in the meantime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Poje Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 as close as you can get is 29 CFR 2520.104b-10(a) which states in part that "the administrator of any employee benefit plan shall furnish annually to each participant of such plan and to each beneficiary receiving benefits under such plan (other than beneficiaries under a welfare plan) a summary annual report ". ............................ that was from an old post with the added comment there is nothing that says "only participants with a balance" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K2retire Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 18 hours ago, Tom Poje said: that was from an old post with the added comment there is nothing that says "only participants with a balance" But is a terminated employee with no balance still a participant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Poje Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 the problem with the cite is it doesn't specify if it is 'participant at anytime during the year' or 'only at the end of the year however, all sample language I have seen for SARs has the line Benefits under the plan are provided by (indicate funding arrangements). Plan expenses were ($ ). These expenses included ($ ) in administrative expenses and ($ ) in benefits paid to participants and beneficiaries, and ($ ) in other expenses. A total of ( ) persons were participants in or beneficiaries of the plan at the end of the plan year, although not all of these persons had yet earned the right to receive benefits. so I would argue using that for the definition of participant (EOY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Presson Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 If you look at the link I provided from 2004, they (at least some of them) reached the conclusion that a former participant with no entitlement to current or future benefits was not required to receive an SAR. William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTK Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Does the DOL regulation at 2510.3-3(d) defining "a participant covered under the plan" help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAJake Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 We were diving into this a few weeks ago in my office--We had a brewery client that was purchased by one of the mega-food corps & the old plan was terminated mid-2016. We didn't get all the cash out until early 2017, so all of those Employees had to receive 2 year's worth of SAR for Plans that hadn't existed for over a year. The Plan Sponsor was non-plussed, but better safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I'm in the camp that says term'd/no balance at EOY means no SAR. Of course we take the 5 seconds to generate one and keep it on file in case IRS wants a copy. Have never had them ask for proof of delivery. Ed Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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