ERISAgeek111 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Has anyone ever heard of a DB plan not having trustees? I'm being told only 401k and 401a plans require trustees. Is that true? and if so, what is the authority for this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou S. Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Well are you talking about a DB plan qualified under 401(a) with the assets held in Trust or a non-qualified deferred comp plan with a DB structure for paying benefits? Or is it a fully insured plan using insurance contracts? ERISAgeek111 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERISAgeek111 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 It's a Mutual of America prototype plan, so I assume qualified. Does that help answer the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou S. Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 If the assets are held in Trust and the plan is qualified under 401(a) I don't see how there is no Trustee(s) of the Trust. But may there is something strange I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david rigby Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 14 hours ago, ERISAgeek111 said: … I'm being told only 401k and 401a plans require trustees. ... As implied above, if you are referring to qualified plans, a 401(k) plan IS a 401(a) plan and a DB plan IS a 401(a) plan. ERISAgeek111 1 I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gulia Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 While I don't suggest it's likely, among the remaining possibilities is one Lou S. suggested in the first response: a plan with no asset beyond insurance contracts. ERISA section 403(b)(1)-(2) https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2017-title29/html/USCODE-2017-title29-chap18-subchapI-subtitleB-part4-sec1103.htm ERISAgeek111 1 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Neal Jensen Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Lou S. and Fiduciary Guidance Counsel have won the prize on this one. There are old insurance plans without loans which do not have trustees. ANY asset (loans) outside the insurance contract requires a trustee. Would not surprise me if Mutual of America had issued some of these. PNJ ERISAgeek111 and Dave Baker 2 Patricia Neal Jensen, JD Vice President and Nonprofit Practice Leader |Future Plan, an Ascensus Company 21031 Ventura Blvd., 12th Floor Woodland Hills, CA 91364 E patricia.jensen@futureplan.com P 949-325-6727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Starr Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 3:20 PM, ERISAgeek111 said: Has anyone ever heard of a DB plan not having trustees? I'm being told only 401k and 401a plans require trustees. Is that true? and if so, what is the authority for this? Thanks When someone "tells you" something that is questionable, you should be asking that person for the proof that it is true. This is certainly NOT true, since assets of a plan are required to be held in trust or by an insurance company on behalf of the plan. Let's also note that a DB plan IS a 401(a) plan! Here is 401(a). Note the word "pension" in the first sentence. (a)Requirements for qualification. A trust created or organized in the United States and forming part of a stock bonus, pension, or profit-sharing plan of an employer for the exclusive benefit of his employees or their beneficiaries shall constitute a qualified trust under this section— And, how about this section 401(a)(5)(d): (D)Integrated defined benefit plan.— So, whoever made that statement is blowing smoke out of their rear! ERISAgeek111 1 Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFC President Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. 46 Daggett Drive West Springfield, MA 01089 413-736-2066 larrystarr@qpc-inc.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now