How To Get Copy Of Husband's Original Private Pension Document, Pension Office Not Trustworthy

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

My husband retired from two major aerospace companies that were bought out by Boeing.  My husband divorced his first wife, obtained a QDRO during their divorce process.  The QDRO was entered into the divorce record with the court.  Later, we married, I want to get a copy of both of his two ORIGINAL private pension plans, but I am not sure how or where to begin looking for these documents?  I do not trust the Boeing Pension Dept, they hired a third party firm to handle retiree's pensions.  In the last 8 years since my husband's passing, the Pension Plan Division has changed their name at least 3 times as well as their address!  They were very unprofessional in helping me to receive a small death benefit policy.  They finally issued a check to me, and them nearly 2 years later, sent me a threatening letter saying that unless I sent them a certified copy of my husband's death certificate, I would be responsible for repayment of the one time death benefit payment !  I asked them if they really really REALLY have any protocol that would release funds without it then take nearly two years for them to discover such a breach?  I sent them copies of the docs and envelope with return receipt from the USPS.  Yet they continued to threaten me until I sent ANOTHER certified copy of his death certificate !  Finally I re-complied.  My sending them court certified copies several times cost me nearly $150.00, and took over 1 year to finally receive.  Then after all of that, they harrassed me 1-1/2 year later to repeat the nightmare.

So after all of this, I don't trust them to tell me if I have any rights as a 2nd spouse and as my husband's survivor (his EX wife preceeded him in death, with a QDRO).  I know that the QDRO he had with his divorce settlement WAS FILED with the court, though I don't know if copies of BOTH PRIVATE PENSION PLANS were entered into the court record?

I read where if an Alternate Payee/Spouse passes away BEFORE the Participant, the Participant is free of the QDRO arrangements?  Is a Second Spouse (subsequent spouse, SURVIVING spouse) entitled to a private pension plan according to ERISA?  Again, I have ZERO TRUST in the Boeing Pension Dept !  I am hoping that if I can get COPIES of the ORIGINAL private pension plan(s).  If I find or need an attorney, it will cost me a lot less if I already have the original document to present to an attorney.

Thank you very much for helping to clarify this. 

[Mike Preston]

You might consider contacting the American academy of actuaries and specifically requesting they forward your request to their pension PAL program. It can get complicated real quick.

https://www.actuary.org/content/pension-assistance-list-pal

[fmsinc]

Somebody else posted the same question.  Here is my response. 

Confirm that the aerospace companies were US based and required to comply with ERISA. 

If first wife died than all of her benefits died with her. If she was receiving a shared interest in his retirement annuity, then that would end on her death (unless the plan permitted her to pass her share of his retirement annuity to her estate).  If she has predeceased her then she obviously cannot receive any survivor annuity benefits.   

If the parties are not involved in a divorce proceeding then the new wife is entitled to none of his retirement or survivor annuity benefits by reason of a court order- but maybe otherwise - see below   

If husband remarried new wife and then retired, he would have been required to elect a 50% QJSA annuity for the new wife and she would be entitled to a survivor annuity benefit by law. 

If husband retired and then remarried, he most likely would have had an option to elect a 50% QJSA annuity for the new wife if he met the eligibility requirements of the Plan, ex: duration of marriage, time after retirement when that window was open.   

If husband is dead there are no "retirement" benefits to consider.  Only "survivor annuity" benefits.  

Maybe you can restate the issue and be a little more specific about the facts and the timeline.  

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

In the same divorce case where the QDRO was submitted to the court, wouldn't a COPY of the ORIGINAL pension plan be entered there as well?

 

[Mike Preston]

29 minutes ago, 2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice said:

In the same divorce case where the QDRO was submitted to the court, wouldn't a COPY of the ORIGINAL pension plan be entered there as well?

 

I've never seen a copy of the pension plan submitted to the court.

[Adi]

A note on the first spouse's rights. If a QDRO was filed with the court, it could have named a contingent alternate payee that would receive benefits in the event his first spouse died before starting her benefit. QDROs, especially for defined benefit plans, can get quite tricky, and it's helpful to have someone help you with your particular facts. I'd suggest following-up on the link in Mike's post.

[Mike Preston]

26 minutes ago, Adi said:

A note on the first spouse's rights. If a QDRO was filed with the court, it could have named a contingent alternate payee that would receive benefits in the event his first spouse died before starting her benefit. QDROs, especially for defined benefit plans, can get quite tricky, and it's helpful to have someone help you with your particular facts. I'd suggest following-up on the link in Mike's post.

Link? Link. Link!! Thx!

[Adi]

On 9/17/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mike Preston said:

Link? Link. Link!! Thx!

Are you asking for a link to rules on contingent APs? I don't have one handy, but the PBGC's QDRO guide discusses it to some extent: https://www.pbgc.gov/sites/default/files/qdro.pdf

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:52 AM, Adi said:

Are you asking for a link to rules on contingent APs? I don't have one handy, but the PBGC's QDRO guide discusses it to some extent: https://www.pbgc.gov/sites/default/files/qdro.pdf

Ty so vm for your response!

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

On 9/17/2021 at 1:19 PM, Mike Preston said:

You might consider contacting the American academy of actuaries and specifically requesting they forward your request to their pension PAL program. It can get complicated real quick.

https://www.actuary.org/content/pension-assistance-list-pal

Tyvm

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

On 9/17/2021 at 2:12 PM, fmsinc said:

Somebody else posted the same question.  Here is my response. 

Confirm that the aerospace companies were US based and required to comply with ERISA. 

If first wife died than all of her benefits died with her. If she was receiving a shared interest in his retirement annuity, then that would end on her death (unless the plan permitted her to pass her share of his retirement annuity to her estate).  If she has predeceased her then she obviously cannot receive any survivor annuity benefits.   

If the parties are not involved in a divorce proceeding then the new wife is entitled to none of his retirement or survivor annuity benefits by reason of a court order- but maybe otherwise - see below   

If husband remarried new wife and then retired, he would have been required to elect a 50% QJSA annuity for the new wife and she would be entitled to a survivor annuity benefit by law. 

If husband retired and then remarried, he most likely would have had an option to elect a 50% QJSA annuity for the new wife if he met the eligibility requirements of the Plan, ex: duration of marriage, time after retirement when that window was open.   

If husband is dead there are no "retirement" benefits to consider.  Only "survivor annuity" benefits.  

Maybe you can restate the issue and be a little more specific about the facts and the timeline.  

Tyvm!

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

On 9/17/2021 at 3:19 PM, Mike Preston said:

I've never seen a copy of the pension plan submitted to the court.

Tyvm.

[2ndWife Rights Rice R Lice]

On 9/17/2021 at 2:12 PM, fmsinc said:

Somebody else posted the same question.  Here is my response. 

Confirm that the aerospace companies were US based and required to comply with ERISA. 

If first wife died than all of her benefits died with her. If she was receiving a shared interest in his retirement annuity, then that would end on her death (unless the plan permitted her to pass her share of his retirement annuity to her estate).  If she has predeceased her then she obviously cannot receive any survivor annuity benefits.   

If the parties are not involved in a divorce proceeding then the new wife is entitled to none of his retirement or survivor annuity benefits by reason of a court order- but maybe otherwise - see below   

If husband remarried new wife and then retired, he would have been required to elect a 50% QJSA annuity for the new wife and she would be entitled to a survivor annuity benefit by law. 

If husband retired and then remarried, he most likely would have had an option to elect a 50% QJSA annuity for the new wife if he met the eligibility requirements of the Plan, ex: duration of marriage, time after retirement when that window was open.   

If husband is dead there are no "retirement" benefits to consider.  Only "survivor annuity" benefits.  

Maybe you can restate the issue and be a little more specific about the facts and the timeline.  

Tyvm appreciated.