Effen

I agree w/ PAX, not sure what the question is. You need to do what ever the QDRO says and if the QDRO doesn't say, maybe it isn't a QDRO. I've seen lots of results in lots of different QDROs.

They are "kinder gentler" if you correct mistakes when you find them. They have lots of programs for self-correction. The more chances you have to self-correct, the harsher they will be when the catch you.

The Plan Administrator always bears the ultimate responsibility for everything related to the Plan. That said, PA's generally don't file any form unless someone tells them to file it. I fail to see how why you think that just because you don't need to file a 5500 means that all the PA's advisors will ignore other requirements. You still need to do all the same work you did before, you just don't need to file the form anymore. If you have a deficiency, the PA needs to file the 5330 and pay the excise tax. This has nothing to do with the 5500.

What protection will filing the form provide? What makes you think the IRS will even record the receipt of an unnecessary filing? Has the IRS said what they would do with these unrequired forms? We seem to be ok with not filing the EZ if assets are less than 100K, why aren't you not willing to take the same approach if the assets are greater than 100K? Besides, its the PA's choice to file our not. I suppose you can prepare the forms and send them to the PA with a letter detailing both options, but I'm still not sure what advantages there are in filing when you don't need to. If the IRS isn't asking, why should I should be telling (at least as it relates to a 5500).

I am appalled that you would suggest that an actuary would do such a thing. I agree that it is ripe for abuse, but in order to accomplish what you suggest, you would need to back date the signatures on the Sch. Bs, which would be a clear violation of our Standards. Just because the Sch. B's are not going to be submitted, doesn't mean that I won't have a signed copy, with attachments, in my files. If the amounts are worthwhile for the IRS, there are lots of ways to determine if something was done timely and the fact that you don't need to actually file a Sch. B, won't provide any additional incentive for a "good" actuary to take that job from the TPA. Plenty of bad actuaries out there already who will sign anything if the price is right. P.S. The IRS got hammered pretty hard on this at the EA meetings, for just the reason you suggested. Maybe they realize they will need a revenue generator 5 years from now so they are setting up their ducks for a large scale audit program once they start seeing some abuse.

Its not the first year of the plan. How do the "first year" instructions help me?

Thank you Janet, but my question really had to do with Page 8 of the instruction booklet related specifically to multiemployer plans. It seems to imply that there is no room for an estimated premium. It seems to say that the total premium is due on the first filing date, which seems incredibly unreasonable. Since I'm sure many others have been dealing with this issue, I was wondering when/how other multiemployers are filings their PBGC premiums.

I agree with Andy, Holland said you need to re-file if a deficiency is involved, but if not, change CB on the next B and attach an explaination. He also very clearly stated once again, you CAN NOT change any assumptions from what was STATED on the B.

What is the due date for PBGC premiums for a multi-employer plan? We generally do prepare the filings for our multiemployers since they don't require an actuarial certification, but one of our clients asked us to prepare the premium forms. Page 8 of the instructions states that "For mulitemployer plans... the entire premium is due by the First Filing Due Date". Does that mean that there is no room for estimates using an ES-1? The plans generally don't have the census data for two months, are they expected to have a final participant count in 2 months? How do others handle this?

Full circle! I guess what goes around, comes around.

Conference of Consulting Actuaries

The few that we have filed, sometimes we get a phone call, sometimes not. Consider it "no news is good news". What kind of response were you expecting?

A return call from the Joint Board? They will call you back. I have had very good luck. You can also email them. I had to check on someone last year and they emailed me back the same day.

Just to add to that, since you can never change assumptions on an amended Sch. B, Jim Holland said that if the new actuary was amending the prior actuaries Sch B (because the prior refused to do it or was dead), the new actuary must use the prior actuaries assumptions. If the new actuary was not comfortable signing a schedule B based on the prior actuaries assumptions, an unsigned sch B c/b submitted with an attachment describing the situation. Maybe think of this as a large footnote to the sch B the new actuary will be signing - I said this, not Jim.

Yes, I believe that was what was being asked. I guess I wasn't expecting a "maybe". I always thought it was fairly clear. Problem was, it was the last question of the session and people were getting restless so there was no ability to follow-up.

FYI, Jim Holland said at the 2006 EA meeting that they sent 575 "Howdy" letters to 412(i) sponsors and they are currently examining about 200 cases. He didn't have anything else to report at this time since it is still ongoing.

There is a Rose Bowl joke here somewhere, but I just can't point my finger on it.

Just an FYI, the following question was raised at the "Dialogue with Treasury and IRS" session: If an employer contributes to a DB plan for participants who also have an account balance in a DC does the 25% limit come into play or do they actually need to receive an annual addition in the DC plan during the current year. Harlan Weller answered "that is a fairly messy topic and we have no answer at this time" I find his none answer very enlightening. I guess I will need to tread a little lighter with my advice to clients.

Really? Actually, I thought every actuary was listed on that site. I am not an SOA member, but I am listed, but not as Effen. I would be surprised if an EA is not in that data base, they are all suppose to be there. I would be interested to know if they were an EA, but not listed in the SOA's list.

The SOA maintains a list of all enrolled actuaries. Enrolled Actuary directory

I always thought that was Rosanne Rosanna Danna?

I agree, the "100K" rule only applies to EZ filers. Did you check to see if a PBGC filing is also necessary?

Can you be more specific with your question? What is the actual situation you need help with? DB or DC? Mulitemployer plans are exempt from some of the 415 limits.

I would add a "term cost" to the normal cost. This should be the cost of the insurance, like a term charge. It is the portion of the premium that is actually used to cover the death benefit for the current year. Kind of like an expense assumption. Ultimately the premiums are always "paid" from the trust. If the company pays them directly, the premium payments is treated as a contribution. So it's like they deposited it into the trust and then paid the premium on the same day. Net effect is 0 to the Trust.

When did the IRS start hiring pirates? I think this equal opportunity stuff has gone too far. Can't you guys get a job doing Capital One commercials?