AndyH

Oh, Blinky, you're no fun. That sounded like a modern version of flip flop funding.

What are you proposing to credit interest on for someone who "joins" 1/1? When is the first pay credit considered allocated? If I become eligible for my employer's PS/K plan on 1/1, the first profit sharing allocation is not allocated/credited until 12/31, so why should I get interest?

What is there is no current certification for whatever reason? Is the effective date the day after the expiration of the prior AFTAP?

Thanks, Jay. I stand corrected. I'm accustomed to dealing with these things within the context of cross tested allocations and I misread the original post.

They seem to have a thing about Fridays.

The DB is completely irrelevant if it is frozen. Contributions to it do not matter. Any Non-Keys must get the top heavy minimum, HCE or not. The SHNEC provides no "free pass"; the dollars contributed may merely be used towards the top heavy minimum requirements.

1. A frozen DB does not need a top heavy benefits (unless you have a bizarre document). 2. The DC minimum, if required, would be a maximum of 3%. The SHNEC could be used for that. 3. The top heavy benefit must be on 415 pay for the whole year; the SHNEC doesn't necessarily cover the whole year; pre-participation comp could be excluded for example. Some of your comments are a bit unclear. Does this answer your questions?

Just in case anybody did not see it, the IRS posted a bulletin that it will allow a new interest rate election for 2010, so if a plan elected the full yield curve in 2009, it can switch back in 2010. It is on their website under Retirement Plan Community. They seem to be silent on an asset election.

Great line! I'm going to remember that one. No doubt WDIK has already indexed and archived it for future reference.

Legal question: Did the spouse waive a QJSA in favor of a life annuity or other non QJSA and if so is a second waiver permitted relative to one Annuity Starting Date?

If 2007 has been corrected (with interest) by 9/15/2009 then you have no 5330 due 9/15/09 for 2007 as I understand it And if 2008 has been funded by 9/15/09 then there is no deficiency for 2008. Therefore no 5330 is required on 9/15/09. Anybody disagree?

Yes, why would you think otherwise? And the sponsor is lucky he hasn't been hit with a 100% tax yet.

Understood and agreed. He is always clear about that. But this did sound imminent in June.

Thanks. And to think that Jim Holland suggested that you leave open 4 days at the early August Chicago ACOPA conference on account of these regs. And plan for lots of summer reading as well.

Waiting for this feels like waiting for the Tooth Fairy or the Easter bunny. Any shareable insights on the ETA? Perhaps 9/15 at 11:59 PM? Or maybe the same hour on 9/30? Are they going to package it with the "Public Option" snuck in on page 2968 maybe.

I've looked at this before and agree with Tom and the fish as usual. A red fish with two eyes ain't the same as a red fish with three eyes. The same means the same. But I also agree that the first year need not be a short year. But I don't think it's in any colored book; I don't think it needs to be.

No, not right now anyways. Pending regs may make this possible.

Thanks for the replies.

The match is not included in the Nondiscriminatory Classification Test (i.e. the rate group test) but would be in any Average Benefits Test. Any catchup contributions are completely ignored in any of these tests.

If a top heavy DC plan (profit sharing and 401(k)) has a dual eligibility provision (i.e. 1 month entry for deferrals, 1 year for profit sharing), a non-Key 401(k) participant must get a 3% PS contribution, right? (Assume a Key Employee gets 10%). Now assume that the PS plan is permissively aggregated for 401(a)(4) with a DB plan that also has a 1 year service requirement, and the documents say that the DC plan provides the top heavy minimum. What is the top heavy minimum for a participant who is eligible only for deferrals, 3% or 5%?

Thanks Effen. That is a huge help.

What about the second part of this question, the audit exemption? Seems to me it's a good one.

Related question from a colleague: PBGC covered calendar year DB plan term date 03/31/08. All assets distributed May 2009. Is a 2008 AFN required? Is a 2009 AFN required? I think yes to both. Agree? David, anything else you can add to this from your discussion?

Is this still conventional wisdom, that line 7 of Schedule R should be N/A if the changes are PPA changes?

How would you know that your draft has correctly captured the informed wishes of the parties? Have you discussed all the options with them, shared interest, separate interest, death pre and post retirement, payment start dates, etc? I would expect that some would have concerns about the practice of law issue. There is a very good DOL publication online that states clearly all the requirements, covers many if not all options, and provides model language.