NeedFacts

Got some good news today. Benefit Plans from my former work company called me. A very nice person after talking to me is going to send me the Plan Document on LTD that I need. He even asked me what my question was and tried to look up an answer for me in it. However, he was unable to find anything that addressed it. He offered to call MetLife and see what they say. I told him that my caseworker said that MetLife would not be removing the offset and increasing my monthly benefit by the offset. But he was going to call them and see what he could do especially when I told him that I found cases against Metlife where the advice was that they were obligated to pay the offset. Hopefully I won't have to get my lawyer involved. I will update here when I hear back from him.

Thank you for your response. It is a separate interest. It is continuing on a monthly basis. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my question.

Mr. Bailey, I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place so to speak. I decided to call MetLife yesterday. My company sent everything but what I asked for specifically. MetLife called me back/my caseworker specifically today. She said that they would not pay when my daughter turned 18 with no further explanation. Yet, I am seeing case after case being answered on the internet by lawyers where especially with MetLife or any LTD company that offsets for that, when the dependent turns 18, the offset is added back into the monthly benefit. I think I will ask again in another certified letter for it and quote noncompliance will result in fines per ERISA and see what happens. And tell them that they sent everything but what I requested. Something is just not right here. A gut feeling I guess. Maybe I'm in over my head and it is time to involve the lawyer since I can't get what I am requesting from them.

Agreed. I'm not getting anywhere very fast in my situation. I'm very frustrated since my certified letters especially to MetLife are being ignored. The only SPD I've seen is the one online that is posted on the company's website. But it has nothing that addresses when the dependent turns 18 and what they do about the Social Security Dependent offset. I've been doing research and lawyers on the internet are answering the same question that I have with the statement that they are entitled to the back benefit once their child turned 18. Another one states that my employer is responsible for providing me with a copy of the policy per Section 1332 of ERISA and that failure to provide same could result in civil penalties. Maybe I should state that in a certified letter to my employer requesting it again. Another one states that I needed to request in writing from MetLife an explanation of my monthly disability benefits. I do like that option. It's possible that the company requested the SPD/Plan Document from Metlife and it is having to come from there. I may need to be just a little more patient a while longer before I do anything else. I need to make some decisions here for sure. If I don't get an SPD or Plan Document soon, I think i will contact my lawyer. It's time. What is a disability advocate BTW?

Well I sent two certified letters. One to my employer's benefit plans requesting the plan documents and SPD. They responded back with the Plan Document but it has nothing in it about the Long Term Disability policy. To be blunt, it is ran by MetLife. I did send MetLife a certified letter also with the official documentation from Social Security that shows where my daughter's family benefit ceased to be payable and I requested that my monthly LTD benefit not be offset by it from the cessation date forward. I have heard nothing. Should I have requested the Plan Document from MetLife in my certified letter since they are over the LTD and go from there, should I call Metlife and just ask my caseworker to explain how they handle the offset once the dependent turns 18 or should I get my lawyer involved at this point?

Well I'm back with some not so great news/update. I'm sorry to report that my ex-husband I have been told by a mutual friend has recently passed away. But I have to think of myself at this point and ask will this affect me continuing to get my benefit as a result of the QDRO that is in place now since I have a separate interest? Or will his widow begin receiving his pension only at this point? Just thinking out loud here and wondering what the rules are when this major life event happens.

Mr. Bailey, questions for you. I'm alittle confused on the document plan wording: Is the SPD that the the company has online for viewing the same as the policy/plan that I would need to request a copy of or is there a more in depth official type of document that I need to get a copy of? What is the name of the document that I would need to request a copy of that would possibly have more detailed information relevant to my situation? And if there is, do I need to request the copy from the company that I worked for or the actual LTD company that is handling my disability claim through the company? Thank you in advance for your answers.

I have checked and the copy of the plan that I am referencing/reviewing says that it is the official SPD. With the disability company ignoring my certified letter, I agree that it is time to get my lawyer involved. Thank you for your advice.

Thank you for your response. I do appreciate you taking the time to do so. I have reread the policy many times now and there is absolutely nothing that addresses this issue. I actually have issues with the Family Supplemental Benefit being taken against my monthly benefit in the first place as it has very strict guidelines under Social Security rules as to how it can be spent only on that child and not anyone else in the family so why and how it is used against my benefit I don't agree with. Plus, we filed taxes on our daughter only for those benefits and not me at tax time so why those benefits were taken out against me seems to me to be wrong but that's another fight for another day. The only thing that the plan does address/show is how they arrive at the initial calculation in your monthly benefit by simply subtracting your Social Security benefits which include yours and any Family Supplemental Benefits. It is a simple subtraction from your monthly benefit from them. However, it is mandatory that you apply for Social Security Disability. But nowhere does it address what they do when the child(ren) turn 18 and you are still on LTD. The certified letter that I sent to them asked for an official explanation by them in how they handle this situation/issue first off and I noted to them that the issue does not seem to be addressed in their policy/plan. I gave them a reasonable time frame to respond back and it has expired with no form of contact back from them. That tells me that they don't like what I found. This situation occurred starting in 6/18 and it is now up to over $10,000 that they have potentially shorted me now. I talked with my lawyer initially and we agreed to start with a certified letter from me to see what they would do first. I was hoping it would give me some answers at least but evidently the insurance company has decided not to respond for whatever reason. Looks like I will be hiring my lawyer to contact them next as you suggest. I will keep you posted as to what happens next. Would it be a good idea to reach out to other LTD people who may be in the same situation at my company and see what they have to say?

I have long term disability through my company as well as Social Security Disability. My daughter qualified through me as a Family Supplmental Benefit until she turned 18. We managed to get it extended until she graduated from high school. My company plan subtracted my Social Security and hers from their benefit that was payable to me as an offset. No where in the policy does it address what to do when the family benefit goes away. I notified the disability company when the family benefit ended. Several months later, I noticed on my monthly EOB that they 'quietly' reduced my total benefit by the amount that was paid to my daughter yet they did not increase my payout. So it is a numbers game at this point. I have found on the internet the same situation and the lawyer advised that person that they were entitled to that part of their benefit to be reinstated again. I sent a certified letter to the company recently asking for either an explanation or the back benefit and for it to be reinstated. It has been ignored. My questions are: Am I entitled to that benefit and the back wages? What should I do now if I am? Hire a lawyer? This is a big name insurance company and I worked for a large company. Should I contact others that I feel sure have been done the same way to initiate a class action suit for them also?

I would like to update my situation. I have very good news to report. Benefit Plans has paid my back benefits plus interest in full and has begun paying my monthly benefit according to my QDRO. And as you predicted, my disability plan has not come after it in any way so I'm good to go with it. I wanted to take the time to thank each and every one of you who gave me such good advice on this forum. I'm so grateful that I found this very informative source for QDRO's. I don't know what I would have done without your advice and guidance through it all. Thanks so very much. It was certainly a pleasure working with all of you. You all fill a great service in what you do. Sincerely, LAHartline

No the QDRO is not being paid to me because of my disability. It's flat out a result of a divorce settlement/time frame from way back before my disability time frame even started. I so hope you all are right. I hate to have to get a lawyer involved. I will wait and see what the LTD company decides first before engaging a lawyer. I have no problem using one if I have to though. I had to use one to fight them on an initial disability decision and we won the case against them. It was an odd situation. I won Social Security but my company LTD turned me down for coverage so I had to take them to court. I will keep you posted on what happens.

Well thank you Mr. Presson. That is so kind of you. I hope so too. I believe in being prepared when I go up against a situation/knowledge is power. Before I landed here, I had spent countless hours combing the internet trying to find the answers I needed before I found this board. And I could tell this was the place where I would find exactly that by the level of expertise here. I'm very impressed by what I saw posted in the answers given to people. You all definitely know your material, inside and out. Back to my situation, I have looked at the LTD plan document and its a little vague. It doesn't look good for me though. I think I may be in for a fight. It says they MAY offset with. I think they will have to analyze the QDRO and see exactly what it is: Your LTD benefits are reduced by other sources of income that are payable to you because of your total disability. Income that may reduce your LTD benefits includes, but not limited to: Workers’ Compensation benefits or benefits provided under a similar law, state disability benefits, and other statutory benefits for disability, retirement, or unemployment Benefits provided through Company benefit plans.Any Social Security benefits for which you are eligible, including any benefit received by a dependent on your behalf because of your entitlement (refer to the Social Security and “Long-Term Disability Benefits”).If any of these benefits are payable as a lump sum, your LTD benefit will be calculated as if these benefits are paid monthly. The insurance company may have the right to recover advanced benefits by direct payment or by offsetting against future LTD payments.Your LTD benefits will not be reduced by any private disability coverage that you have purchased

Very good advice. I think you are quite correct in your summation. I will take a look at the LTD plan document first and go from there. Thank you for your insight on this situation. I do appreciate it.

I went ahead and contacted Benefit Plans and just asked them some questions about it. They said that I would lose the back benefits i.e, the lump sum if I elected to defer my benefit until later in life rather than now. They said it would not increase my amount per month since my ex when he retired had hit the required 85 points so he got the full amount per month and so did I. My problem is now this: I actually worked for another company when I went out on LTD. They of course offset for Social Security and Family Supplemental Social Security in my monthly benefit. I never liked the Supplemental being taken out since it had to be spent on that family member only and not anyone else so I don't see why it had to affect my pay since it was so limited but that's another discussion. So now my question is will the LTD company have a right to offset with the back and future monthly benefits of the QDRO? On one hand, it's a money settlement from a marriage dated from 1979-1992 which is before my LTD. On another, the benefit will be collected for life from the time my ex retired which is within my LTD. I'm sure the LTD company will argue that the benefit will fall within their being able to collect it somehow. Just thinking out loud here. Then again, I might need to ask my lawyer about it?

Thank you. Yes I have some concerns of them coordinating and thereby reducing my LTD benefit as a result of the QDRO. I was thinking that I need to defer it until I stop the LTD and start Social Security at 65. Would you surmise that they would hold my entire back benefits until then including the lump sum also if I deferred my benefit distribution? I have attached the Plan document that they sent me when I requested it. Would you mind taking a look at it for me and tell me what you think? BTW, I did notice at 12.11 on the plan document as stated, that they will be going after my ex for the over payment of the benefit to him. ORNL Pension Plan (PPA Cycle E Restatement).pdf

I have a new question related to my QDRO back benefit entitlement and current distribution. Do I have to take it now or can I delay my claim? Can I just let it sit there for now? The reason is that I am on LTD and if I could delay getting it for a few years, I wouldn't have to offset it with what I get from my LTD. I am 62 now. I'm thinking it would be better if I could do that.

I have an update for you. Today I received from Benefit Plans the documents I requested in writing and from a discovery standpoint, I have to deduce that there was nothing sent to my previous name and address on file beyond the certified letter I got from them initially notifying me of the QDRO. They did include a letter with a decision from the Administrative Committee stating that I am now entitled to back benefits dating back to when my ex-husband retired on 1/2009 which also includes interest. They included, as I requested, a spreadsheet of how they calculated my benefits as well as the interest. I had my tax advisor look at the calculations and she said it looked good to her so I am pleased with it. Thanks for everyone's help. Now what happens if and when Benefits decides to go after my Ex for the back benefits is between them. Not my problem at this point.

Thank you Pension Dork and JamesK for your comments. I hadn't considered those points. I will keep all of that in mind. I sent a certified letter today to the PA requesting the SPD, plan document, the date when my benefits should have started, how they calculated my benefits, any correspondence that should have went to me under my old name and address, anything concerning me that the Admin Committee is using to make their decision about my back benefits. Thank you JamesK for pointing out that paragraph in my QDRO. That certainly makes me feel better about the situation. And it makes sense too. I am just hopeful that the Admin Committee's decision goes in my favor. I will keep you updated.

Thank you so much for your response/insight. Based on what you are telling me, I will move forward and just ask for all of it in my written request for information. What the heck...all they can do is say no if any of it is not allowed. I, personally, don't think they have certain documents for me to request since the QDRO wasn't attached to my benefits in the first place. The paper trail will show that. One interesting side note. I had an epiphany the other day. I remembered having some important papers stored away and when I went and found them, I found a report called, '1989 Benefits Report' and a pay stub for my ex. Evidently I had kept them when I shredded all prior records from my marriage. Would this be an SPD? It also stated that the Pension plan is a 'defined benefit' plan. And it reaffirms when benefits are payable: when age and service equals 85, or at age 62 with 10 years company service. Or reduced benefits payable after age 50 with 10 years of service. He may have been given a total disability though at some point in time. But it lists amounts for Disability Benefits, Survivor Benefits, Retirement Benefits, Pension Plan Accrued and Vested Benefits, Etc. From what you are saying, it sounds like I should just wait for the Admin Committee's decision to be handed down as it will explain a lot at that time and I will then will be able to move forward if I need to. Funny that you sent me that link. I had already contacted them yesterday and I have an appointment set up with their pension lawyer in about a week. But thank you for that as it just reaffirms that I am going down the correct path. As an FYI, I did find yesterday on the internet a case that might affect me where the sister plant of Y12 in Oak Ridge sued a Participant for collection of over payment of his back benefits which was a result of a miscalculation and therefore caused the AP to not receive a large enough benefit. Even though the cause is not the same as mine, the end result is. And the judge ruled in favor of Benefits/Y12 to collect the back benefits from him. My concern is that I will be dragged back into court by my ex-husband if they go after him for the back benefits. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to do that by reopening the QDRO to recoup his loses here. He is very capable of doing that if I look at his track record with me. I had to fight for 3 long hard years to get just the half of what I was entitled to by law. He gets the award for frivolous court filings. I guess I am just trying to anticipate what is going to be coming at me in the near future if that is possible. Again, I truly appreciate your help in my situation. I've attached the aforementioned court case if you want to take a look at it. USCOURTS-tned-3_05-cv-00588-0.pdf

That would make sense. Thanks for the insight on it. I did hear from the ERISA benefits advisor today. She told me to formally send a written certified letter requesting the documents I wanted from the PA. She also told me after I gave her all the background on my case to let the Admin Committee hand down their decision and go from there. She said to contact ERISA again if their decision was not in my favor and to get a lawyer at that point. Do I have the right to ask if they ever attached the QDRO to his benefit plan and actually set aside my benefits from his at the time it was finalized according to their fiduciary duties? And do I have the right to ask for access to the information that the Admin Committee has for the agenda/pending decision about me and my benefits? I just want to know what I am up against here. All that information would be relative if the decision involves my entitlement to the back benefits and the amount or if it is about my ex-husband and collecting the overpaid benefits from him, or if they are just trying to decide where the back benefits will be paid from, etc.

Well no SPD as requested from the PA yet. But I can't believe it but I did manage to find an old one in my files that belonged to my ex-husband. It's dated 1989 but it does have some important info in it. I wasn't too far off in my spreadsheet from the dates I calculated on his company service. Can someone tell me why he has a company service date of 2/15/75 and a credited service date of 11/25/74? BTW I have also contacted ERISA to have a benefits advisor contact me concerning this issue of my QDRO. I wanted to make them aware of the situation and to see if I needed to be doing anything else before the Admin Committee makes a decision on my back benefits. I'm not concerned so much with who pays my benefits just that it gets paid and rightly so. And my rights to my document access. I will let you know what happens with that.

I'll check into those documents thank you for suggesting those. You all may find this rather interesting. I am a spreadsheet guru and I couldn't help myself so I setup a spreadsheet with what I have of known criteria on age and dates and backed in some formulas and such on my ex to do a calculation on when he reached the magic number of 85/company combined points of company service and age. I do know he was 25 when we got married so I know that date and I know he was 18 when he started with the company. And I know that he is now 63. According to my spreadsheet he reached the 85 points in the 2005-2006 time frame. We are talking some major $$$ here. No wonder the Admin Committee is going to take a while to make their decision to pay me the back wages on my benefit. I really had no idea.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it. I am shocked too that it wasn't caught before now. Evidently I have triggered all of this when I changed my name and address and they had to go searching for it. Supposedly they had to go back and look in their archived paper files or that was what I was told at least. I wish I knew when the benefit payments should have commenced so that I can see how much money is involved here. I have requested my eligibility date several times now but they have not provided it to me yet. I don't know when my ex's earliest retirement age is, but I do know that he started working there at age 18 and he is now 63 and the 'magic number' you have to have of combined company service and age to retire is either 80 or 85 I can't remember. I'm glad to hear that the money will come from the plan's trust fund. Let them deal with my Ex. Fine with me. I am so thankful for the lawyer who put this QDRO in place for me. They were really looking out for my best interests. I will wait for the Admin Committee to make their decision and go from there. I do have a lawyer friend on standby if I will be needing her just in case. Are there any other documents/information that I need to get from the Plan Administrator?

Just got a copy of the QDRO from Benefits but I am having a hard time understanding the terms of it. Would someone take the time to give me their interpretation of it in everyday terminology? I'm curious especially what happens if: 1. I die first, can I designate a beneficiary to continue to get my benefit? 2. He dies first, does my ex's benefit portion revert to me? (he has since remarried, but I have read where some QDRO types override the current spouses with the AP as beneficiaries).