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Quinan

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  1. Quinan
    Hi all- Just want to give you a update on what's happening. Employer is saying she was "married", when she did the election at retirement for the 100% J&S Annuity. Now that they have the divorce decree that I gave them, they are now saying she had a 100% Contingent annuitant. They are saying that they treat beneficiaries and contingent annuitants differently. We still are looking for the benefit form (which they still haven't provided. working on it) . I'm really now just confused at it all. Plan says for a 100% contingent annuitant must have spousal waiver and for a 100% J&S you have to have a spouse. So....I have plan documents but her SPD's in the year she retired never mentioned any Contingent Annuitants. Just spouses and beneficiaries. Her employer says there are beneficiaries and annuitants. They are not the same, They are not interchangeable.
  2. Quinan
    Thank you Effen. I did tell the plan over 7 months ago, sent in her divorce decree to her employer. When she retired, she was already in disability status for 4 years and had not gone back to work. I do believe {possibly} committed fraud, but not willingly or maliciously on her end, that’s why I had sent in the decree. I believe that she thought that what was said in the decree would over ride everything and never thought another thing about it. I’m not even sure she filled out another election form in 2011 because she had already been absent from there for years. I don’t know. I can tell you that even though I have ERISA accounts, I had no idea what they entailed. And mom, probably even less. Will keep you updated. Thanks for your impute. Very much appreciated!
  3. Quinan
    Hi Effen- they have not disclosed that to me since they said I was not a beneficiary of the pension plan. They did say however that when she retired her election had named a “beneficiary “ for her ERISA QJSA pension and that her election form stated “married”. That’s all we were able to get out of them at this moment in time. I think I’ve hit a wall. Employer counsel said I was not beneficiary on anything, then 30 days later employer says I am beneficiary on life and 401 k but not pension. Hoping to somehow get a copy still. Since it is ERISA they (employer) is saying I don’t have a right to see it. But I thought her 401k was ERISA also, is it not? Thanks!
  4. Quinan
    Hi All Got a little more info from the employer. I am beneficiary of the 401k and the life in her employer retiree life. I am not (they say) of her QJSA pension. My question is how can she even have a QJSA if she was not married? This is a ERISA Qualified Defined Benefit Pension Plan. How can they pay someone when there is no one to pay? Is this legal? Is this ethical? Is this right? She divorced before she started her pension. They are still saying they will pay the non participant ex with no QDRO. How is it even a Qualified if they pay out the wrong beneficiary or one that doesn't exist by design of ERISA? Thanks for listening. Stay WELL!!
  5. Quinan
    Thank you Luke! Yes, the plan is subject to ERISA. I have counsel working on getting plan documents secure. Hopefully will find something out within the month. Since she was a participant in a QJSA for the pension and named him as a beneficiary wouldn’t that automatically be a null and void designation? Assuming that ERISA protects the surviving spouse, and if she named anyone other than a surviving spouse that she would need waivers? So, she didn’t have a surviving spouse but her designation was never changed if that makes sense. So, all in all if I understand it correctly, she should of had a single life annuity. With no spousal survivor benefits. No QJSA. NO waivers. Complicated is a understatement! Good to know of secondary possible recourse... will keep updates.
  6. Quinan
    Thank you Effen! I will work on getting the benefit form. They haven't been very forthcoming yet but I will keep at it. They did tell me that he was the last beneficiary on file. So..... we will see and I will keep you abreast of the situation. My mom was disabled when she left her company and had Multiple Sclorosis. So I am not sure that she ever went back to her employer after her separation from them. In the spd it does say that a employee can name a spouse or other beneficiary of the pension benefits, I just have to see the terminology of the form because it is so vague. I sooooo appreciate all your help. Fortunately, I was not related to her spouse in any shape or form. He is responsible for her early death from a supposed fall down the stairs in Mexico......I have no recourse there so, this would be my only recourse is to make sure he does not benefit from her death, what-so-ever. Thanks again!
  7. Quinan
    Pension Dork Thank you for the reply. My mom and I were 20 years apart. Her an her ex were 10 years apart her being his senior. Her paperwork from 2011 say that she has a 100% Qualified Joint and Survivor Annuity. Another question would arise if her company made her take a QJSA with a surviving spouse as the only beneficiary as in default. From my understanding a QJSA is only for married couples? Am I missing something? Would her employer make her spouse a default beneficiary? If no QRDO, is he entitled to anything assuming he was a beneficiary of her QJSA and their divorce decree each account is separate property free and clear of any claims of the other. I seem to be able to read this in so many different ways and scenarios. It doesn't seem to be black or white or cut and dry.
  8. Quinan
    Lou S. Thank you, I looked into the SPD and of course it is very vague on that issue, so I will need to get the forms she filled out in 2011 and the benefit plan in full and not the summary.
  9. Quinan
    Lou S. Thank you. I am guessing that could be a possibility also. Would it be a "valid" beneficiary in that instance?
  10. Quinan
    Thank you both so very much. When I spoke to her benefits dept. they did say that her beneficiary was not me. Does that automatically mean that a spouse has beneficiary rights even though they were divorced prior to her retirement and prior to her annuity starting? There was no QRDO but the judgement divorce decree gives her her own defined benefit plan free and clear of any claims of her ex husband. also, it is a ERISA governed plan and she did have the J&S A. 100%. Her monthly pay while working was 3200. When she retired and took the J&S 100% her benefit was 900/ month. The benefit department had also asked me if her ex spouse was alive when I called in to let them know of her death. Would that mean there was a contingent beneficiary? And can you name a ex spouse as a joint owner and also a beneficiary after you pass? Thank you. I most definitely will get a well versed ERISA attorney. Effen any referrals you trust? Thanks!
  11. Quinan
    Effen thank you for responding. Yes, he is a ex spouse and no there was no QDRO. Her benefit election form from 2011 for 401k, life, ad&d and stock, I was the beneficiary which I have the copies of them and the confirmation letters that her employer sent to us at the time of the election. I do not have the page of beneficiary for the pension listing the beneficiary. It was 3 pages stapled and missing the top page. The second page says that her pension is going into a joint account that her and I have together through her employer ( checking acct) and it also gives the amount per month going into our acct and the a Joint and Survivor Annuity of 100%. She gave these to me in 2011 to keep for safe keeping and also telling me of intentions and so forth. Her employer also gave her a retirement life insurance policy if she retired before a specific year but they also said I was not a beneficiary. So, I am confused because there would of been no reason for her to change anything and the human resources dept also said that once her elections are in, they can't be changed after retirement or when benefits start.To be honest they have been vague to say the least. I understand that if I am not the beneficiary, but I sent them the paperwork and everything that I have. They looked into for a month and then told me through email after I contacted them that the beneficiary has been notified. That's it. No other communication even though I have tried. Thanks again. This is the most information I have gotten in months. I appreciate your insight for sure. One additional question, If she never told her employer of her divorce would that have something to do with this mess? She was on disability when she got a divorced and never went back to work until her retirement. She was getting long term disability from her employer and social security disability until retirement from employer.
  12. Quinan
    Thank you Effen for your reply. I'll try to clarify: My mom was married 1996 when she did the QJSA. From the Summary of her plan, she was allowed to name a spouse or a non spouse beneficiary at the time providing she get a waiver signed. She knew that he would never sign a waiver so the beneficiary was him. Fast forward to divorce 2006....The divorce gave them each their own accounts (retirement, annuity, pension, 401, stock) free and clear of claims of the other. My mom never worried about it from then on. When she retired 2011, she filled out her benefit elections....I have all the elections on hand naming me as the beneficiary. I am however missing the top page of her beneficiary copy that she gave me from her pension QJSA though as we had moved and paperwork had gotten jumbled. But I have a very good chunk of it. Fast Forward to 2019....mom has passed tragically at the hands of her ex husband in Mexico. He had tried for years to get his hands on all her money and possessions and has finally done so. To the point of actually emailing her life insurance company (apart from her employer) to name him as the beneficiary of her life insurance and to take me off the insurance as beneficiary. This happened AFTER she died. The life insurance company did not give him any payouts but just so you know that this human has not played by the rules and possibly got ahold of her employer benefits before I called them to let them know of her passing. Now her employer won't talk to me, her 401k asks me every month to turn in another affidavit of beneficiary, etc., another notorized copy of my social, ANOTHER death certificate. I tend to think they are stalling because they have paid out the wrong person. This all makes no sense to me. But I have been reading a lot about ERISA and fear that I may have no recourse since he is a ex spouse. Thank you so much, I hope I made more sense.
  13. Quinan
    My mom had a Pension. A QJSA. She divorced in 2006 and retired in 2011. In her divorce they each retained their own retirement acts. Free and clear from any claims of one another. Through her employer I was her beneficiary on her life ,ad&d, 401k while she was working. She has passed and the company said the beneficiary had been notified without another word spoken to me. Her attorney said that state law (Ohio) predeceases the ex in retirement plans with decree which she thought all would go to me (pension and other acts) I am her only child. Now, her employer said I was not the beneficiary although I showed them paperwork that I was, which was done at her retirement in 2011. EVEN THOUGH THEY NOW SAY, after 5 months of back and forth, that I’m not the beneficiary they want me to send in her death certificate? It does not make any sense. Not only am I dealing with the death of my best friend but her employer is making me feel like crap to be honest. It’s all so very sad and don’t know what to do at this point. Do I just give up? Do I let it go? My mom did not want him to have anything because he had his own and it was always her intentions for me to have her acts. I was also her power of attorney and we had bank acts together. I have taken a full notebook of notes with the conversations I have had with her benefits center and Human Resources. Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you so much! Quinan
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