Guest Campaignman Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 A congregation wants to set up a NQDC arrangement for its soon-to-be-retired clergyman. I understand the substantial risk of forfeiture requirement, and I believe that the organization will fully satisfy it. The clergyman's future benefits are contingent upon him serving out the remainder of his contract and providing substantial services to the congregation. If he leaves early, or if he otherwise fails to satisfy his job duties, he'll receive $0. I also believe that I'm ok on the distribution rule. Nothing will be paid until the clergyman separates from service. What I can't figure out is the timing of the payouts. Do all of the distributions need to be made within 2-1/2 months after the end of the year when the clergyman retires? Or, can the NQDC document specify a fixed schedule of payouts over several years? Of course, the clergyman doesn't want to recognize any income before the actual cash flow (and the congregation doesn't need the administrative burdens of that sort of timing issue). I've tried to research Sec. 409A's provisions about payouts, but the literature is very confusing. Also, it appears that Sec. 409A has been modified, several times, since its adoption. Thank you for your guidance.
Guest Eric. Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 The distributions do not have to be made within 2 1/2 months, the 409A compliant Distribution Election can specify time and form, which includes an annuity stream.
jpod Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Why won't you be paying out the entire amount in a lump sum at the time of vesting so that the payment occurs at the same time as the amount is taxable under 457(f)?
QDROphile Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Assuming that the arrangement is governed by section 457(f), the entire benefit amount is taxable when the risk lapses even though the payments may stretch over time. If you think the arrangement is not covered by 457(f) you had better be able to justify that conclusion.
jpod Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 QDRO: Actually, it occurs to me that this arrangement is likely exempt from 457(f) under the 3121(w) "church" rules. My bad.
Lori Friedman Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Sec. 3121(w) exempts church employees from Sec. 457(f), but don't they still fall into the Sec. 409A trap? Lori Friedman
Guest Campaignman Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Why won't you be paying out the entire amount in a lump sum at the time of vesting so that the payment occurs at the same time as the amount is taxable under 457(f)? For budgeting and cash flow reasons, the congregation's Board of Directors wants to pay the compensation over a longer period of time. Also, the clergyman doesn't want to get a huge hit of income in a single tax year.
jpod Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Lori: Yes, you still have to address 409A. I was just baking off from/apologizing for my 457(f) comment.
QDROphile Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Does that mean I have to apologize for my assumption about 457(f)?
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