EFAST2 Update

[Andy the Actuary]

To anyone's knowledge, has the DOL formally or informally indicated that they will relax their no-sharing position on digital IDs so that a plan sponsor may give "power of attorney" to a third party to file the 2009 5500?

[Archimage]

I haven't heard anything yet that they will loosen their position.

[Guest allen293]

Has anyone noticed that the 5500 Instructions available here:

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/2009-5500inst.pdf

have added a line that was not in the original Fed Reg version:

"The plan administrator or, if the plan administrator is an entity, a person authorized to sign on behalf of the plan administrator must electronically sign the Form 5500 submitted to EFAST2."

So on the one hand, you can't share your PIN number and other sign in info. And yet you are free to delegate the signing to someone else anyway (for entity sponsors)?

[Andy the Actuary]

Has anyone noticed that the 5500 Instructions available here:

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/2009-5500inst.pdf

have added a line that was not in the original Fed Reg version:

"The plan administrator or, if the plan administrator is an entity, a person authorized to sign on behalf of the plan administrator must electronically sign the Form 5500 submitted to EFAST2."

So on the one hand, you can't share your PIN number and other sign in info. And yet you are free to delegate the signing to someone else anyway (for entity sponsors)?

Yes, but you I wouldn't think want to be one of those persons!

[Belgarath]

I think that is really intended to allow signature by an authorized person if the "Plan Administrator" is, say, First National Trust Company. If so, then any authorized person at First National Trust Company can then sign as PA.

But to answer your question, yes, I saw that, and initially wondered if it would allow the type of delegation we'd all like to be allowable! Unfortunately, I don't think it does.

[Jim Chad]

I have heard at several seminars that the DOL was asked this question:"What about my two clients that don't use computers?"

And their response was" They can go to the public library or ask the 12 year old next door."

Does this mean they can share their credentials with the "12 year old next door" but not with me?

[goldtpa]

Whay about the security issue of using a public computer at the library? Would the computer remember your ID or PIN? Other people may be able to see the EFAST 2 site with the computers cache. If you haven't "logged off" EFAST 2 your personal information may be accessible to others.

[GMK]

And their response was" They can go to the public library or ask the 12 year old next door."

Hey, we know they don't really mean it ... do they?

Maybe this is just a polite way for public servants to say, "Give me a break. How stupid and backward are these people, thinking they can run a business without paying a monthly fee to be on-line. How small is your small business, anyway? Besides, we're too big to be denied. We've made our choice. You deal with it."

Gotta go. Someone is waiting to use this to look up a book.

[Guest allen293]

Well, looks like DOL partially caved in:

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/2010/10-680-NAT.html

with more at: http://www.efast.dol.gov/welcome.html

If I'm reading this relief right, the plan administrator can manually sign and need not register for credentials at all, so long as the right procedures and authorizations are made.

[Andy the Actuary]

The third party submitter option is most welcome.

The only concern is that the electronic submission would need to contain a pdf formatted attachment of the first two pages of the 5500, which would include any signers' signatures. This attachment would be posted to the DOL's website along with the 5500 and would be available for public inspection.

I would hope eventually owing to privacy and identity theft reasons that this requirement will go away. We'll be filing to extend the 5500 filing deadline to allow more time for the DOL to reconsider this requirement.

[Guest AHS527]

I've finished about 100 filings so far. I would say 5 clients have "pushed back" on obtaining their credentails but for the most part things have gone very smoothly. The whole process from start to finish (obtaining credentials AND electronically signing the 5500) takes clients about 15 minutes to complete so it is not cumbersome at all IMO.

[Andy the Actuary]

And how many employees do these clients typically have? Do they own a computer? If so, do they know how to turn it on?

The point is some will find the simplest task cumbersome. We are there to serve, not to be served. I'm glad for you that your clients had no problems.

[Guest AHS527]

Completely agree with you Andy. There will always be some that complain. The vast majority of my clients have been able to complete the filing with very little effort, so I guess the point I was trying to make was that this is a lot easier than people think.

These are all non audit plans so far so we are only talking about clients with less than 100 ees.

[Andy the Actuary]

Thanks. You are fortunate. I work with a number of organizations (subject to audit) with high turnover of their financial officers (they don't even have HR) where the pension plan is the red-headed step-son. Often, multiple follow ups are required or repetitive emails to explain a process. There are a number who could manage the process but my boy scout preference is to make life as simple for the clients as I can and to ensure it gets done.

I will report back if any (many) of my clients elect to submit the filings on their own.

[david rigby]

We are there to serve, not to be served.

Not the mantra of the IRS or DOL.

[Andy the Actuary]

We are there to serve, not to be served.

Not the mantra of the IRS or DOL.

It's the Christian ethic I learned in shul !

[Guest allen293]

And how many employees do these clients typically have? Do they own a computer? If so, do they know how to turn it on?

The point is some will find the simplest task cumbersome. We are there to serve, not to be served. I'm glad for you that your clients had no problems.

I am personally of the mindset: who are these people who do not know how to access the Internet, register, and click a button signing a document, in the year 2010?

However, my office apparently does have a number of clients for whom the signers (who would not be considered unsophisticated by any stretch) are extremely tech adverse. Going through the EFAST2 credentials process would apparently involve much poking, prodding, yelling, and potential physical injury.

[Guest Bearlee]

Has anyone found the IFILE system to be a functional nightmare? I don't know how many times I have had to login because the site has frozen up when I try to save. Also, to punch in the insurance company's name on Schedule A, it keeps booting me out because there are too many spaces (like 1 or 2 for certain names). The thing is overly sensitive. I don't know what kind of Beta testing they did on it, but looks like we are still in it. I have to hope that v. 2.0 is going to be completely better.

[Guest Bob Kayak]

Well, looks like DOL partially caved in:

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/2010/10-680-NAT.html

with more at: http://www.efast.dol.gov/welcome.html

If I'm reading this relief right, the plan administrator can manually sign and need not register for credentials at all, so long as the right procedures and authorizations are made.

I agree, however, I have questions about who actually electronically signs the filing.

From the first site mentioned above:

Under the new e-signature option, service providers that manage the filing process for plans can get their own signing credentials and submit the electronic Form 5500 or 5500-SF for the plan. The service provider must confirm that it has specific written authorization from the plan administrator to submit the plan’s electronic filing. In addition, the administrator must manually sign a paper copy of the completed filing, and the service provider must attach a PDF copy of the manually signed Form 5500 or 5500-SF as an attachment to the electronic filing submitted to EFAST2.

However, I remember the DOL making a point of saying that firms should not get their own author credentials, that each individual within a firm must get author credentials. Now, this notice seems to indicate that a firm may get signer credentials, which would be shared with the individuals in the firm. Granted, the first is about author credentials and now we are talking about signer credentials, but it seems like the same rules would apply.

Does that sound right that a firm would have one signer credential shared by many? Or, do you think that an individual should get signer credentials and the authrorization letter from the client would mention the indvidiual in the firm that will be signing on their behalf?

Thanks

[Guest Kentuckiana]

I've finished about 100 filings so far. I would say 5 clients have "pushed back" on obtaining their credentails but for the most part things have gone very smoothly. The whole process from start to finish (obtaining credentials AND electronically signing the 5500) takes clients about 15 minutes to complete so it is not cumbersome at all IMO.

Glad to see someone with a successful track record of filing. What vendor did you use for your filings?

[Guest AHS527]

Web Client through Relius. The system is great!

I think it all comes down to how we prepared our clients for the change and the approach we took to completing the filings. As soon at the system was available in March I jumped right in and started contacting the signers. There were a few bumps along the way but for the most part things have run rather smoothly.

Reading some of the posts on here it looks like there are some TPAs that have not even started the filing process and we are already into June. That is a scary prospect given the fact that historically (at least from my experience) the "signers" tend to disappear for vacation during the majority of the summer months.

There are going to be a lot of people that will be running around in September and October.........I am trying not to be included in that group.

My office has completed 174 5500s of which 122 have been sucessfully efiled (just to give you an idea).

[Guest Kentuckiana]

To AHS527 - It is so refreshing to hear someone say that he "jumped right in." My company does not believe in filing extensions! I'm always surprised that extensions are the first reaction for some folks. This is the first time in years that I haven't had most of my 5500s filed by the end of May. I'm all set up and ready to go with Relius Web Client now that the last round of updates were made. Thanks for the positive remarks.

[Andy the Actuary]

I'm always surprised that extensions are the first reaction for some folks.

Mea culpa, mea culpa. May I be condemned to 100 years of sitting in the corner in the "sorry chair" for filing extensions. Had we filed 5500s (some done) in April, the clients would have had to be involved. That would have been fine for some, a disaster for others. Generally, the choice of many attorneys in preparing compliance amendments is to wait until the deadlines to see if modifications or other changes apply.

Different strokes. You go your way, I'll go my way, and no one will care 100 years from today who went which way.

[mwyatt]

Dating myself no doubt, but anyone remember the original TEFRA restatement process? The early birds were "rewarded" by having to rerestate (not a typo) for DEFRA and REA, and this well before fast laser printers. Procrastination isn't necessarily a bad thing when you're dealing with Version 1.0 of anything.

[Guest Kentuckiana]

As Andy says, different strokes. I just want to enjoy my summer. But wait! Filing extensions still leaves the summer free!

[doombuggy]

Web Client through Relius. The system is great!

I think it all comes down to how we prepared our clients for the change and the approach we took to completing the filings. As soon at the system was available in March I jumped right in and started contacting the signers. There were a few bumps along the way but for the most part things have run rather smoothly.

Reading some of the posts on here it looks like there are some TPAs that have not even started the filing process and we are already into June. That is a scary prospect given the fact that historically (at least from my experience) the "signers" tend to disappear for vacation during the majority of the summer months.

There are going to be a lot of people that will be running around in September and October.........I am trying not to be included in that group.

My office has completed 174 5500s of which 122 have been sucessfully efiled (just to give you an idea).

Ah, how I miss Relius!

As one of those people in a TPA firm that hasn't started filing yet, that is NO fault of ours. We have Datair, which was only recently approved by the DOL (within the past week or two), but hasn't updated the software, so I am still sitting here with my thumb in my ear.....waiting!