Is anyone taking SOA actuarial exams

[Guest tvset]

I am working for a small retirement benefit consulting firm. It seems that no one is interested in taking SOA exams. However, I heard that people need to have a SOA designation in order to become a pension actuary in big retirement consulting firms. Any comments?

[Andy the Actuary]

Before you bust your chops, suggest that you visit with large consulting firms to assure you are training for a vocation for which there will be demand.

[RCK]

Ironically, just this morning I told our Enrolled Actuary that he'd be able to shut off the (actuarial) lights when he retires because there would not be any DB plans left.

[John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA]

Other than cash balance plans...

[RCK]

Nope, no exceptions.

RCK, FSA, EA

[Andy the Actuary]

1 1/2 (after-tax) cents: DB plans may continue to exist for some time for at least the following:

(1) Frozen plans that can't get funded

(2) Single employer union plans

(3) Multiemployer plans

(4) Municipal and state government employer plans

(5) Educational employer plans

(6) Professional service corporations plans

(7) One-person plans

Without manifold change to underlying law, FASB, and public perceptions, do not look for an employer with any critical mass of employees to be adopting DB plans.

In short, unless you're planning to focus on (6) and (7), there may be very little EA work.

[RCK]

Apologies to Andy-I have to agree that the niches that she has identified will continue on for some time.

But I have to say that if I had not already accumulated an AARP to go with my FSA, EA I'd be looking at a CERA (Chartered Enterprise Risk Analyst) certification.

[david rigby]

Apologies to Andy- ... she...

[Andy the Actuary]

Please note that Andy t.a. appears much the way he writes -- with a dangling participle. And you can look it up. . .

[Guest Black Bart]

I've been an FSA for 30 years. If you are not going to work in health or life, it's not worth the paper that it comes with. My last 20 years of jobs have been more dependant on my finance MBA than my FSA. I have no idea why you would want to break into work with the large consulting companies in pensions. Have you fallen for their many, many marketing ploys?

Life there can be very difficult as you need to meet billable hours’ objectives, and for 40 years I've seen them generate more actuaries than they have positions for. That generates a process that is political as much as it is professional, and which is identical to the process by which large law firms and accounting firms generate partners. There is a considerable fall off between the large number of new professionals hired and the few that become partners. The same thing goes for FSA's at the large houses. Further, if you are not in your mid-twenties, you are probably too old to generate much traction in that type of professional environment.

As far as the CERA certification goes, be careful. It's being pushed now as the SOA flavor de jour, but so was pension work back in the 1970's and 1980's. My suspicion doesn't come from what that kind of education equips you to do. I would worry about how much demand exists for the work. After all, as the end of 2008 came, there were a lot of ERM's who were ignored, or pushed out the door when they pointed out how risky financial life was becoming. I thank God I saw a report on MBI's that got me headed out of the stock market in mid 2007. The gigantic financial firm that produced the report ignored it, but they were bailed out. Remember, if you commit your professional life to something that doesn’t pan out, noboI've been an FSA for 30 years. If you are not going to work in health or life, it's not worth the paper that it comes with. My last 20 years of jobs have been more dependant on my finance MBA than my FSA. I have no idea why you would want to break into work with the large consulting companies in pensions.

Life there can be very difficult as you need to meet billable hours objectives, and for 40 years I've seen them generate more actuaries than they have positions for. That generates a process that is politcal as much as it is profesional, and which is identical to the process by which large law firms and accounting firms generate partners. There is a considerable fall off between the large number of new professionals hired and the few that become partners. The same thing goes for FSA's at the large houses.

As far as the CERA certification goes, be careful. It's being pushed now as the SOA flavor de jour, but so was pension work back in the 1970's and 1980's. My suspicion doesn't come from what that kind of education equips you to do. I would worry about how much demand exists for the work. After all, as the end of 2008 came, there were a lot of ERM's who were ignored, or pushed out the door when they pointed out how risky financial life was becoming. I thank God I saw a report on MBI's that got me headed out of the stock market in mid 2007. The firm that produced the report ignored it, but they got bailed out.dy is going to bail you out.

[John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA]

(4) Municipal and state government employer plans

Governmental defined benefit plans will last until the government is bought out by another government. Then they'll have until the end of the next plan year to fix things due to the 410(b)(6)© transition rules... Never mind.