more adventures of form 8955-SSA

[Tom Poje]

So the plan terminated 4/30/2011. That was the pay out date.

so the SSA is due 7 months later, or 11/30/2011. which is before the due date for the 2009 and 2010 SSA filings! Go and figure!

and there is no 2011 form, much less even a 2010 form. And I'm not crossing my fingers on an early release date of that form.

but I'm still suppose to report the prior terminated people as "D" on a 'timely' basis.

Gotta love it!

Maybe I need to print it on glow in the dark paper just so it won't get 'lost'.

[mbozek]

So the plan terminated 4/30/2011. That was the pay out date.

so the SSA is due 7 months later, or 11/30/2011. which is before the due date for the 2009 and 2010 SSA filings! Go and figure!

and there is no 2011 form, much less even a 2010 form. And I'm not crossing my fingers on an early release date of that form.

but I'm still suppose to report the prior terminated people as "D" on a 'timely' basis.

Gotta love it!

Maybe I need to print it on glow in the dark paper just so it won't get 'lost'.

I have alredy dealt with a similar anomaly. Solo PS plan teminated 12/31/10 and distributed final assets 3/20/11. Short plan year ends 3/31/11.

Final 5500-ez due 10/31/11. No 2011 5500-ez available. Client filed 2011 5500-ez July 1, 2011 by certified mail. 5500-ez is marked up 2010 form.

[austin3515]

Hey Tom, did you see the ASPPA's ASAP on signing 5558's? I'm still confused... Can I sign for my clients or not? I'm an ERPA... Do I need to get their permission first?

Another classic case of the IRS not saying what they mean in English...

[chc93]

Another question... has anyone heard more about "Enter each participant’s name exactly as it appears on the participant’s social security card." I already submitted electronically through FIRE, but didn't think about this... just used the name as I have in our files...

[Tom Poje]

Austin -

that's the least of my concerns since we are going to go ahead and file electronically.

Already created the forms on FT William, and have created an inital batch.

I'm going over my plan list one last time just to make sure I've them all.

I have a crystal report that will pull a list of all plans on the system so I've something to compare things.

while the project has taken a little time, it has actually flowed fairly smoothly.

As for entering the persons name exactly, well, I've put down what I have. Can you imagine putting down someone as Jane Doe, then 2 years later she marries so you have to update the records then she divorces 3 years later so you need to update the records for the name change?

[austin3515]

Does batch filing extensions work for SSA's as a means of avoiuding the signature?

[Tom Poje]

well, according to FT William if you file electronically you don't need a signature on the SSA. [not the 5558]

and if you file in batch through them you don't need a separate PIN or whatever.

since I know what I need to put on the SSA (well maybe all but a couple, but I will know by filing deadline for the SSA) I won't need to put anything on extension

[Bird]

Hey Tom, did you see the ASPPA's ASAP on signing 5558's? I'm still confused... Can I sign for my clients or not? I'm an ERPA... Do I need to get their permission first?

I thought it was pretty clear; ERPAs may sign. I don't think you need permission.

Does batch filing extensions work for SSA's as a means of avoiuding the signature?

I may have misunderstood but I don't think you can batch file extensions - you can batch print and then mail them all together but they must be filed on paper.

[Tom Poje]

I'm not talking about filing extensions, but rather the 8955 form itself. Because I can file everything at once electronically I don't fathom much of a need for needing to file an extension for that form. Of course, there are always possible exceptions that arise, but I'm certainly not fretting over it.

[mbozek]

Another question... has anyone heard more about "Enter each participant’s name exactly as it appears on the participant’s social security card." I already submitted electronically through FIRE, but didn't think about this... just used the name as I have in our files...

I dont see how that is possible since plan uses information in employment applicaton for identity purposes which can be different from name in SS records. I have several different variations of my legal name: birth certificate, SS card ID which I never use, different name for CC and mortgage app. My drivers license name is the same as my birth certificate but I dont use it anywhere else. Marriage and divorce result in frequent name changes which are never recorded by SS. SS no. is only common ID.

I have a client who use three different names including her current married name, her prior married name and her business name, none of which are on her SS card.

[chc93]

So the plan terminated 4/30/2011. That was the pay out date.

so the SSA is due 7 months later, or 11/30/2011. which is before the due date for the 2009 and 2010 SSA filings! Go and figure!

and there is no 2011 form, much less even a 2010 form. And I'm not crossing my fingers on an early release date of that form.

but I'm still suppose to report the prior terminated people as "D" on a 'timely' basis.

Gotta love it!

Maybe I need to print it on glow in the dark paper just so it won't get 'lost'.

Has anyone heard if a 2010 Form 8955-SSA will be available, if ever? For some plans, I'd rather keep the 2009 and 2010 information on separate forms. I think I can use the 2009 form with 2010 dates for only 2010 required information, but would rather use an actual 2010 form. But if it's never coming, then I'll use the 2009 form. How long should I wait? Any ideas? Thanks...

[Tom Poje]

since they say you can use the 2009 form I would just go ahead and use that, with the correct dates.

we plan on filing electronically through the batch at FT William, so I don't know if that makes difference how things are read by the IRS.

[chc93]

since they say you can use the 2009 form I would just go ahead and use that, with the correct dates.

we plan on filing electronically through the batch at FT William, so I don't know if that makes difference how things are read by the IRS.

Thanks, Tom. We also have some plans that only require a "2010" form, since there are none to report on a "2009" form. I guess the "2009" form should work for this too.

[Tom Poje]

as to the fun stuff, the instructions clearly say under when not to report a participant

a participant is not required to be reported

"If before the date the Form-SSA is required to be filed (inlcuding any extension of time for filing) the participant

1. is paid some or all of the deferred vested benefit

so someone who quit in 2008 and was paid out in 2011 wouldn't have to be reported as an A on the 2009 form and then as a D on the unavailable 2011 form which may take forever.

[chc93]

I have another situation that I'd appreciate some thoughts.

The company went bankrupt in 2008, and currently ceases to exist. The bankruptcy trustee is still handling all plan matters. We have 2 participants that were terminated in 1986 and 1992 for which we don't have SSN's. They terminated way before we took over the plan. When we took over, the SSN's for these 2 participants were not available/provided. They are still "missing", and their benefits were rolled over to IRA's. We are attempting to see if the rollover institutions have obtained SSN's.

Assuming we cannot get SSN's, would it be better to report them on the 8955-SSA with Code D and SSN of 000-00-0000, or not report them at all. Since they terminated so long ago, we don't have information that they were even reported with a Code A at some point in time.

Also, I'm hopeful that the difference between the instructions (mandatory reporting of Code D) and the regulations (optional reporting of Code D) is resolved as "optional". Then, not reporting may be the path of least "question".

[Tom Poje]

this sounds like a misunderstanding of the whole concept of the form SSA.

you report someone as an "A" (Active)

when the person turns 65, the SSA 'generates' a letter to the individual telling him they 'may' have a benefit.

If the person has been paid out (or in the case of a DB might already be receiving an annuity) you report the person as a "D" (Delete).

That way the SSA department takes them off the list so no letter is generated.

It would serve little purpose to report them with a soc sec number of 000-00-0000, as they can't take the person off the list, unless you have a hope that they can track down the name with the plan and an old filing. remember, this is the same dept that took this long to come up with a form. If filing electronically the system probably wouldn't take it. If filed on paper, I'm not quite sure what the process is. if it is eventually hand entered, then its just going to generate a letter to someone.

so I guess 20 years from now when the person turns 65, the system will generate a letter saying they may have a benefit. They will try to contact a company that went bankrupt 20 years ago. I suppose if the IRA is under the soc sec number it might be found (but then you should have it also). if the IRA is under their name with the company name attached maybe they will get lucky and it will be found.

of course, all that is my thoughts only. good luck!

[chc93]

Tom, thank you very much again for your insights. Much appreciated. I understand the concept of the SSA, and I guess my concern is that, per the instructions (contrary to regulations), reporting Code D participants is mandatory. If it was optional, I would think that ignoring such "missing" participants is the better way to go.

Turns out that the rollover institution only has "place holders" SSN's (000-00-0006, for example), and the address that they have has already been identified as "invalid". So... the adventure continues.