Employer never contributed

[movedon]

Brother, there were rude blowhards and their fan club around here long before you got here, and they'll be here long after you've moved on with your life. It ain't you.

[ratherbereading]

Hmmm. I need to get some popcorn for this thread!

[Patricia Neal Jensen]

This is a professional blog for other professionals.  I don't understand why the spouse of an employee got on this blog.  And now he is insulting us.   He (the spouse) needs to get out his wallet and hire an ERISA attorney.

 

[Larry Starr]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:47 AM, Mikefern said:

Looks and read every post. The question was answered. M. Starr got fired up and went off. Read each post from the top. I clearly stated she had the form 4 hours before he sent 3 messages indirectly insulting me. Now you’re jumping in. How about giving some guidance or are you an ambulance chaser too

Time for all the professionals to stop responding to this individual.  Wonderfully said spiritrider!

[Larry Starr]

1 minute ago, Patricia Neal Jensen said:

This is a professional blog for other professionals.  I don't understand why the spouse of an employee got on this blog.  And now he is insulting us.   He (the spouse) needs to get out his wallet and hire an ERISA attorney.

 

Amen.

[Patricia Neal Jensen]

davebaker@benefitslink.com

Dave.... It is a problem to permit participants and/ or their spouses on this discussion board.  Could you please inform Participants and their relatives that this is not an appropriate place for resolving their problems?  Thank you!

Patricia Neal Jensen

QBI/Ascensus

 

[Larry Starr]

3 minutes ago, Patricia Neal Jensen said:

davebaker@benefitslink.com

Dave.... It is a problem to permit participants and/ or their spouses on this discussion board.  Could you please inform Participants and their relatives that this is not an appropriate place for resolving their problems?  Thank you!

Patricia Neal Jensen

QBI/Ascensus

 

Yes, that would be great if there were some sort of warning message to people trying to post as to the intention of the board.  I would love not to have individual participant questions.

[RatherBeGolfing]

@Dave Baker

Including a notification to Dave for this thread.

I don't think it is necessarily inappropriate for a participant to come here to ask questions.  Many have simple questions and just don't know who to ask or where to turn for information.  I agree that it is inappropriate to try to resolve specific participant issues or lay blame on someone through the message boards.  We never have all the information, and we only get one side of the problem.

To that end, maybe just have Mods lock a specific thread when it gets combative and insulting, rather than not allowing questions from non-industry folks all together?

 

[Bird]

18 minutes ago, RatherBeGolfing said:

I don't think it is necessarily inappropriate for a participant to come here to ask questions.  Many have simple questions and just don't know who to ask or where to turn for information.  I agree that it is inappropriate to try to resolve specific participant issues or lay blame on someone through the message boards.  We never have all the information, and we only get one side of the problem.

I agree.  Anyone who wants to ignore such posts is free to do so.  

[Larry Starr]

2 minutes ago, Bird said:

I agree.  Anyone who wants to ignore such posts is free to do so.  

My suggestion was some sort of "warning" message at sign in of what the purpose of this system is.

[Below Ground]

Suggest that the OP review page 33 and 94 as found in Revenue Procedure 2019-19.  Here's a link to that Rev. Proc.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-19-19.pdf  Then, if that explanation doesn't fit your situation, explore other sections to see if they fit.  Finally, obtain counsel that is knowledgeable with this type of issue.  If you really want to have this issue addressed then do your research and get qualified professional help.  Good luck.

[Bird]

Another thought for the original poster - sometimes the enrollment form has to go to two places.  So, if it has both deferral elections (i.e. how much you want to contribute) and investment elections (where you want the money to be invested) it needs to go to the employer so they can enter the deferral election into the payroll system, AND it has to go to the investment provider so they can set up the investment account properly.  SOMETIMES sending the form to one place will get everything done, but not necessarily.  It could very well be that you (or someone who didn't know any better) sent the form to the investment provider but the employer never saw it.  In that case you might just say "lesson learned" and start now - I don't see any fault on the part of the employer.

There are multiple parties involved, sometimes wearing different hats but sometimes one wears multiple hats:  your employer, the payroll company, an investment provider (that may also be providing "recordkeeping" and/or third party administration services) and perhaps a third party administrator.  I'd submit that the combination of a small employer (that doesn't  necessarily know what they are doing) and a large investment provider (that doesn't have the time or inclination to look at a form and say "mmm, I wonder if this went to the employer) is a recipe for this kind of error.

[Mikefern]

22 hours ago, Below Ground said:

Suggest that the OP review page 33 and 94 as found in Revenue Procedure 2019-19.  Here's a link to that Rev. Proc.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-19-19.pdf  Then, if that explanation doesn't fit your situation, explore other sections to see if they fit.  Finally, obtain counsel that is knowledgeable with this type of issue.  If you really want to have this issue addressed then do your research and get qualified professional help.  Good luck.

Below ground. Thank you for your expertise. You are spot on! We’ve contacted the DOL and they stated the same. The problem is being solved as this was an internal error. Thank you

[Dave Baker]

On balance, I think it's worth having questions come in from participants and beneficiaries (and ex-spouses) because we're often able to do so much good for many of these folks. The message boards are picked up by Google, so people find us. My thinking has been that having public message boards is better on balance than having private message boards, though certainly a members-only model would have some benefits. Others who find us via Google are employers (some of whom are potential clients) and other benefits professionals (who may be sources for referrals). In order to register, one has to answer the question, "What is the name of the federal law governing employee benefit plans that was signed into law by President Gerald Ford on Labor Day in 1974?" The idea is to weed out the folks who aren't sincerely interested in getting help. It prolly takes only a quick Google search, but still...

The occasional rudeness goes with the territory nowadays.... I know the best strategy is to refrain from feeding the trolls, but I often get hooked by some anonymous comment on Twitter and rant back. Perhaps people are short-tempered in part due to the virus. I know I am getting sick of my cat climbing on the keyboard and pressing random keys. Sometimes it's just the inherent difficulty of communicating via text, without the benefit of tone of voice or facial expression. Did I read somewhere that the latter two factors make up something like 80% of the content in communication? But I also can't blame a person who just wants to ask a question or make a point without all the ribbons and powder, whether or not it comes across as gruff. Free country, and all that.

Remember that if you ever regret a post, you can go back and edit it or even delete it (or let me know, if you don't yet have such super powers on account of your moderator or senior contributor status).

Would it be a good idea to come up with standard disclaimer language, though, to which we could link when answering questions from non-professionals? I'm thinking that a link could appear at the bottom of each reply in a message thread that was started by a non-professional -- something like: "WARNING: All of my comments and other information are provided as a courtesy only. While I hope they are helpful and believe they are accurate, they are offered with no guarantee of their accuracy either in general or in the questioner's particular circumstances. Often there are other relevant and important facts and circumstances that have not been asked or discussed, for example, which would affect their accuracy. They are provided on the express condition that the questioner should not and cannot rely upon them as legal advice from me or any firm with which I am affiliated. You should seek independent legal counsel if you would like advice upon which you can rely, for which you'll probably need to pay a fee."

[RatherBeGolfing]

42 minutes ago, Dave Baker said:

I know I am getting sick of my cat climbing on the keyboard and pressing random keys.

Kids and dogs make for an interesting work from home experinece as well...

[Dave Baker]

Feline equivalent of "nose to the grindstone" perhaps.

[Belgarath]

 "I know I am getting sick of my cat climbing on the keyboard and pressing random keys." Too funny. I was in the midst of sending my boss an e-mail when the cat tromped across the keyboard, and I sent an e-mail of mostly gibberish. Probably  a new acronym is about to be invented, like PIE (pet induced error) or something like that.