Cubs1908 Posted May 25 Posted May 25 This impacts things like number of employees, revenue (as represented by TOT INCOME on the 990 and Revenue on 5500), liabilities, cash on hand, etc. Can anyone help me understand why I'm seeing those differences?
Bill Presson Posted May 25 Posted May 25 Well I’m confused because I’m not aware of many data points that would be identical on those two forms. The name, address and EIN ought to match of course. But can you list a few examples of data points that should match? Please be specific. Luke Bailey 1 William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
Cubs1908 Posted May 25 Author Posted May 25 Apologies, definitely should’ve been more clear. The biggest thing I’m trying to do is reconcile some of the reported figures from a 990 and 5500 health benefits form. From what I can tell, the 990 reports the non-profit level figures for major metrics like company revenue, liabilities, and a bunch of other metrics like spend towards employee benefits. In theory, it seemed like I could cross-reference those figures with the 5500 form to match up those figures. For example- employee benefits spend listed in the 990 matching with the premium received amt from the 5500 schedule A. Or, revenue/liabilities from the 990 matched with reported figures from 5500 Schedule H. It may be my misunderstanding, but are those not referring to the same thing? thanks!
Bill Presson Posted May 25 Posted May 25 Someone with expertise in welfare benefits 5500s will have to jump in because I don’t have that. Sorry. William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
Peter Gulia Posted May 25 Posted May 25 Are both reports for the same period? And even if they are, consider that one report's item might be on an accrual basis of accounting while the other report's similar item refers to an amount actually paid or received. Further, seemingly similar items might not be exactly the same in a particular report's query or instructions. Luke Bailey and Bill Presson 2 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Cubs1908 Posted May 26 Author Posted May 26 So both reports are for the same period. I'm noticing this discrepancy for pretty much all companies that I was trying to validate. For example, here's what I see for this EIN. Form 990: Total number of individuals employed in calendar year: 303. Total Revenue: 23,674,433. Then for employee benefit spend, it seemingly could come from two sources. Either Part 8 line 2c (Private Insurance Rev): 590,890 or part 9 line 9 (other employee benefits): 3,229,238. In either case, it doesn't really match total benefit spend from the 5500. Form 5500 Total number of employees: 217. Total Income: 2,511,761. Total Benefit Spend: 530,428. My goal is to get these to match as closely as possible. Do you know what might be explaining differences between something like total revenue and total income or the differences in reported benefits? Thanks!
Bill Presson Posted May 26 Posted May 26 Pretty sure the 5500 only deals with participants and not employees. Also a 5500 usually deals with a single plan. It’s possible that plan could have more than one benefit but it may not have all benefits. And not all benefits have enough participants to require reporting on a 5500. While 5500s and 990s are technically public documents, it’s bad form to identify an employer on the board. Luke Bailey and justanotheradmin 2 William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
RGDP Posted May 29 Posted May 29 In addition to making sure the dates correspond you'll want to make sure that you're comparing numbers using the same basis of accounting (accrual, cash, modified cash). On the Form 990, the realized gain (loss) is usually reported on Part VIII. Unrealized gain (loss) is usually reported on Part XI, Line 5 (and not necessarily part of revenue). Depending on the situation, Part IX, Line 4 may also include those benefits provided to Officers, Directors, Trustees, Key Employees and other Employees and therefore not reflected in Part IX, Line 9. Part IX, Line 9 could include several other items such as employee events. With that said you probably won't reconcile between the two just by looking at the forms. I'm not saying that it's impossible but you're going to need more information to be able to reconcile. I hope this helps.
Patricia Neal Jensen Posted May 29 Posted May 29 I agree with the comments above but have to ask "why" are you trying to reconcile the numbers on these forms? If I see a discrepancy in a significant number on something that matters to the 403(b) (number of employees listed as 800 on the 990 but we have been told there were 10 when the proposal was issued), I ask the sponsor to explain. Bill Presson 1 Patricia Neal Jensen, JD Vice President and Nonprofit Practice Leader |Future Plan, an Ascensus Company 21031 Ventura Blvd., 12th Floor Woodland Hills, CA 91364 E patricia.jensen@futureplan.com P 949-325-6727
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