QDRO Revision Question

[Gabriel]

I am divorced for 22 years. My QDRO had me paying life long alimony, however my ex recently dropped the alimony as she is living with someone. On the QDRO it has ex named as my death beneficiary. I am remarried for 5 years and would like to change the death beneficiary to my current wife. I belive that the reason ex was named this designation was in the event I should pass away and she would be paid her alimony. 

I would like to modify my QDRO and I was advised that I would need to ask her if she agree's first?? I am perplexed as this is my money...

Should I ask ex first or just have lawyer send her a letter and make it matter of fact of my intent.

Do I have a good change of the judge agreeing to modification. She dropped the alimony and legally my obligation has been satisfied.  She is entitled to a share of my pension in QDRO which I am not disputing, I just want to add my current wife as my death beneficiary. I live in New Jersey.

Kindly advise.

[david rigby]

Lots to unpack here, with some vagueness that needs careful probing, which probably should not be done in this public forum.  Such probing should be done by your attorney, NOT discussing with the ex-wife.  (For example, it's unusual, but not impossible, to have "alimony" as part of a QDRO, so the attorney will get clarity on terminology.)  If the attorney is not intimately familiar with QDROs, keep looking.

[Gabriel]

1 minute ago, david rigby said:

Lots to unpack here, with some vagueness that needs careful probing, which probably should not be done in this public forum.  Such probing should be done by your attorney, NOT discussing with the ex-wife.  (For example, it's unusual, but not impossible, to have "alimony" as part of a QDRO, so the attorney will get clarity on terminology.)  If the attorney is not intimately familiar with QDROs, keep looking.

I have been in touch with a QDRO attorney and they advise I do speak to the ex first because they said she needs to agree. I am not certain that she will so if she does not then I have to go back to family court and have the judge rule on this. However being that ex dropped the alimony as she was violating the divorce agreement I do not see why I would not have a judge rule in my favor.  Ex still will get equitable distribution for the length of our marriage from my pension. 

I merely want my current wife to be the death beneficiary and have this language updated in my QDRO.

 

Any other advise? 

[Gabriel]

• Author

Posted just now

  4 minutes ago, david rigby said:

Lots to unpack here, with some vagueness that needs careful probing, which probably should not be done in this public forum.  Such probing should be done by your attorney, NOT discussing with the ex-wife.  (For example, it's unusual, but not impossible, to have "alimony" as part of a QDRO, so the attorney will get clarity on terminology.)  If the attorney is not intimately familiar with QDROs, keep looking.

My QDRO states the following: Alternate Payee shall be designated death beneficiary on Participants Pension to the extent of her calculated interest.

Participant shall be required upon retirement to elect a joint and survivor benefit which comports with Alternate payee interests. Failure to do so could put a lien on said pension etc:

Based on that does it mean that I CAN add my current wife why would I need my ex wife permission? 

Kindly advise. 

[Calavera]

It sounds like this is a defined benefit plan, it was a Shared Interest QDRO, and neither you nor your ex started receiving benefits yet.

If I am correct in these three assumptions, you cannot change the beneficiary for the portion of benefits subject to the QDRO, unless it is possible somehow to nullify the old QDRO and create a new Separate Interest QDRO upon agreement between you and your ex.

However, if only portion of your benefits (<100%) were subject to a Shared Interest QDRO, you can elect your current spouse to be a beneficiary for the remaining benefits.

[david rigby]

23 hours ago, Gabriel said:

I have been in touch with a QDRO attorney, and they advise I do speak to the ex first because they said she needs to agree.

Is it just me?  is this advice from attorney surprising?  Crazy?

[Gabriel]

Yes, I thought the same however because in the state of NJ I was told that the ex has to agree because it is a QDRO that names her as a death beneficiary.

It is very confusing and again ex dropped alimony as she is cohabitating. She will get her equitable share for the years we were married from my pension.

Ex does not need to rely on my total pension. I am happily married for 5 years and I find it only fair that my current wife be named as death beneficiary.

Has anyone ever won this type of amendment if gone in front of the judge? 

It would save alot of money if the ex would agree, I believe that is why it was advised I talk to ex or at best give her notice of my intent.

Than again it is kind of like asking a shark not to eat me!!! 

Any advise would be most appreciated.

[QDROphile]

Given the difficulty of understanding the description and the context, any answer is speculative. I can imagine a context in which the advice is perfectly sane. It depends on exactly what the interests are, and if a QDRO has been established. The advice would be appropriate if the adjustments had to go back to the state court for revision of its order. State courts do not like to open cases that have been resolved, and certainly wouldn’t do it simply because one party wanted to revise. The best hope would be for the court to be presented with an agreed-upon amended/replacement.

See Calavera’s post.

[fmsinc]

Nobody on this blog can give you a valid response unless we can read the QDRO - all of it, every page.  You can redact it by crossing out the case number and the names of the parties and attach it to your response. 

Do not redact the State where it was entered since that may be important with respect to whether or not the court still has jurisdiction to amend the QDRO.  

Do not redact the name of the Plan since that will matter since there are tens of thousands of different plans that operate under various Federal statutes, state, county, city and municipal plans, and they do not all operate in the same manner. .  

And you need to confirm that the QDRO was approved by the Plan and has been making payments to your ex-wife since your retirement.

If there is a separate Order for alimony, such as the Judgment of Divorce, redact and attach that as well. 

We will then be in a position to help.  

You need to keep in mind that a QDRO is a division of PROPERTY accrued during the marriage.  Alimony is not considered property. 

DSG 

[Gabriel]

3 hours ago, Calavera said:

It sounds like this is a defined benefit plan, it was a Shared Interest QDRO, and neither you nor your ex started receiving benefits yet.

If I am correct in these three assumptions, you cannot change the beneficiary for the portion of benefits subject to the QDRO, unless it is possible somehow to nullify the old QDRO and create a new Separate Interest QDRO upon agreement between you and your ex.

However, if only portion of your benefits (<100%) were subject to a Shared Interest QDRO, you can elect your current spouse to be a beneficiary for the remaining benefits.

 

 

Thanks for your feedback! Yes, it is a shared interest QDRO because it states that ex is entitled to the 11 years of marriage the figure is noted however it also says that upon my retirement I can elect a joint or survivor benefit my pension department told me that I can only have 1 death beneficiary and currently on QDRO this is what it says:

Alternate Payee ( EX) shall be designated death beneficiary on participants (me) pension to the extent of the calculated interest. Participant (me) shall be required upon retirement to elect a joint and survivor benefit which comparts with alternate payee(ex) interests. 

So that is the part that names her as death beneficiary on QDRO and my pension department said I can only have 1 named and they have this QDRO so I can amend it but I was advised to speak to ex first??????  I am only trying to add my current wife as death beneficiary it should not be this hard!!!!

I was told from a QDRO attorney that ex would need to agree to make the process easier and more cost effective. But if she attests I have to go back to court.

My ex recently dropped the alimony as she is cohabitating and does not need my entire pension to fall back on. Do you think the judge would rule in my favor?

I am looking to retire in a year and I can try and amend this now. I can legally request amendment before I retire and payments start going out.

Any other advice would be most appreciated. 

[Gabriel]

5 minutes ago, fmsinc said:

Nobody on this blog can give you a valid response unless we can read the QDRO - all of it, every page.  You can redact it by crossing out the case number and the names of the parties and attach it to your response. 

Do not redact the State where it was entered since that may be important with respect to whether or not the court still has jurisdiction to amend the QDRO.  

Do not redact the name of the Plan since that will matter since there are tens of thousands of different plans that operate under various Federal statutes, state, county, city and municipal plans, and they do not all operate in the same manner. .  

And you need to confirm that the QDRO was approved by the Plan and has been making payments to your ex-wife since your retirement.

If there is a separate Order for alimony, such as the Judgment of Divorce, redact and attach that as well. 

We will then be in a position to help.  

You need to keep in mind that a QDRO is a division of PROPERTY accrued during the marriage.  Alimony is not considered property. 

DSG 

 

 

 

[Gabriel]

Thanks for your feedback! Yes, it is a shared interest QDRO because it states that ex is entitled to the 11 years of marriage the figure is noted however it also says that upon my retirement I can elect a joint or survivor benefit my pension department told me that I can only have 1 death beneficiary and currently on QDRO this is what it says:

Alternate Payee ( EX) shall be designated death beneficiary on participants (me) pension to the extent of the calculated interest. Participant (me) shall be required upon retirement to elect a joint and survivor benefit which comparts with alternate payee(ex) interests. 

So that is the part that names her as death beneficiary on QDRO and my pension department said I can only have 1 named and they have this QDRO so I can amend it but I was advised to speak to ex first??????  I am only trying to add my current wife as death beneficiary it should not be this hard!!!!

I was told from a QDRO attorney that ex would need to agree to make the process easier and more cost effective. But if she attests I have to go back to court.

My ex recently dropped the alimony as she is cohabitating and does not need my entire pension to fall back on. Do you think the judge would rule in my favor?

I am looking to retire in a year and I can try and amend this now. I can legally request amendment before I retire and payments start going out.

Any other advice would be most appreciated. 

[Calavera]

The goal of a QDRO in a defined benefit plan is to provide an Alternate Payee (AP) a portion of participant's benefit for AP's life. In a case of a Shared Interest QDRO, an Alternate Payee is assigned a portion of participant's benefit over participant's life. To ensure that the Alternate Payee will actually be receiving some benefits until he/she dies, the Shared Interest QDRO is forcing a participant to elect a J&S benefit, so upon participant's death, the shared portion payable to AP will stop, and J&S portion will start. However, this requirement applies only, and I am using words from your QDRO, "to the extent of the calculated interest".

Here is a simple example: The total benefit is $1,000 per month under 50% J&S. Marital portion of this benefit is $600 per month. AP is assigned 50% of the marital portion under the shared interest QDRO. Essentially it means that you are "receiving" $600 and "sharing" it with your ex 50/50 (each receives $300). When you die, you stopped receiving $600 and there is nothing to share anymore. The 50% J&S provision kicks in where AP receives 50% of the total benefit of $600, i.e. AP continues to receive the same $300, she was receiving before you died. Furthermore, the remaining $400 are not part of the marital portion, and you should be able to elect any other beneficiary for this benefit. However, if your marital portion is 100% of your total benefits, I think there is nothing you can do to change it, unless you will be able to completely nullify the existent Shared Interest QDRO and create new Separate Interest QDRO.

Your pension department should split your total benefit to "marital" benefit and "non-marital" benefit in regard to your ex and treat these separately. The "marital" benefit will be subject to the QDRO, and "non-marital" benefit will be subject to your election.

 

[Gabriel]

Thank you for your example, I appreciate it. I had a meeting with my Pensions Department and basically. Unless I get Ex off the death benefit. I can only leave a dollar amount to my current wife upon retirement and my current wife would only receive my last paycheck if I were to pass on.  I fully intend on negotiating with Ex to have the death benefit removed. If she will not cooperate then I have no choice but to go to Family court and let the judge decide. Ex does not need my entire pension to fall back on. Ex recently dropped the alimony I have been paying because she had been violating the divorce agreement and co-habitating with a significant other. In addition she will get her share to the extent of her calculated interest. I just want her to give up the death benefit. Seems only fair as it is my Pension and I worked for it and I want to provide and leave something for my current wife. 

[ESOP Guy]

I am not the biggest expert on pension plans but given what I know and am reading here is there someone higher up in the Pensions Department you can talk to?  It sound like it possible there is a misunderstanding at the level you are currently speaking to. 

Also, you mention it is important you live in NJ. 

Do you work for a government body?  That can make a big difference and can be an important fact for the experts around here to know.  Public pensions have very different rules than a private pension plan as a general rule. 

[The QDRO Firm]

It sounds like negotiating for the death benefit to be switched is in your best interests. The same would be true in Arizona as well. If you need any other questions answered, please reach out via theqdrofirm.com

[Gabriel]

On 11/15/2024 at 2:12 PM, Calavera said:

The goal of a QDRO in a defined benefit plan is to provide an Alternate Payee (AP) a portion of participant's benefit for AP's life. In a case of a Shared Interest QDRO, an Alternate Payee is assigned a portion of participant's benefit over participant's life. To ensure that the Alternate Payee will actually be receiving some benefits until he/she dies, the Shared Interest QDRO is forcing a participant to elect a J&S benefit, so upon participant's death, the shared portion payable to AP will stop, and J&S portion will start. However, this requirement applies only, and I am using words from your QDRO, "to the extent of the calculated interest".

Here is a simple example: The total benefit is $1,000 per month under 50% J&S. Marital portion of this benefit is $600 per month. AP is assigned 50% of the marital portion under the shared interest QDRO. Essentially it means that you are "receiving" $600 and "sharing" it with your ex 50/50 (each receives $300). When you die, you stopped receiving $600 and there is nothing to share anymore. The 50% J&S provision kicks in where AP receives 50% of the total benefit of $600, i.e. AP continues to receive the same $300, she was receiving before you died. Furthermore, the remaining $400 are not part of the marital portion, and you should be able to elect any other beneficiary for this benefit. However, if your marital portion is 100% of your total benefits, I think there is nothing you can do to change it, unless you will be able to completely nullify the existent Shared Interest QDRO and create new Separate Interest QDRO.

Your pension department should split your total benefit to "marital" benefit and "non-marital" benefit in regard to your ex and treat these separately. The "marital" benefit will be subject to the QDRO, and "non-marital" benefit will be subject to your election.

 

 

[Gabriel]

I have a shared QDRO I was told from my Pension Dept that I could not have 2 spouses named. I understood that to mean that if Ex is survivor benefit  than I cannot name current wife as survivor benefit. She is to receive a certain portion of my pension ( not 100%) so if that allows me to name current as Death beneficiary it was not explained that way to me. If that is the case then how does Death beneficiary work? Would current wife receive a one time payment upon my death? It looks like one of the options would also be for life? I work for a Government body also so there Pension Policy is usually more stringent then general policies. Help! 

[Gabriel]

On 2/24/2025 at 5:08 PM, The QDRO Firm said:

It sounds like negotiating for the death benefit to be switched is in your best interests. The same would be true in Arizona as well. If you need any other questions answered, please reach out via theqdrofirm.com

 

On 11/22/2024 at 5:42 PM, ESOP Guy said:

I am not the biggest expert on pension plans but given what I know and am reading here is there someone higher up in the Pensions Department you can talk to?  It sound like it possible there is a misunderstanding at the level you are currently speaking to. 

Also, you mention it is important you live in NJ. 

Do you work for a government body?  That can make a big difference and can be an important fact for the experts around here to know.  Public pensions have very different rules than a private pension plan as a general rule. 

 

On 11/22/2024 at 5:42 PM, ESOP Guy said:

I am not the biggest expert on pension plans but given what I know and am reading here is there someone higher up in the Pensions Department you can talk to?  It sound like it possible there is a misunderstanding at the level you are currently speaking to. 

Also, you mention it is important you live in NJ. 

Do you work for a government body?  That can make a big difference and can be an important fact for the experts around here to know.  Public pensions have very different rules than a private pension plan as a general rule. 

 have a shared QDRO I was told from my Pension Dept that I could not have 2 spouses named. I understood that to mean that if Ex is survivor benefit  than I cannot name current wife as survivor benefit. She is to receive a certain portion of my pension ( not 100%) so if that allows me to name current as Death beneficiary it was not explained that way to me. If that is the case then how does Death beneficiary work? Would current wife receive a one time payment upon my death? It looks like one of the options would also be for life? I work for a Government body also so there Pension Policy is usually more stringent then general policies. Help!