letsgoisles89 Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 Hi all, CPA here working on a Form 5500 audit (new account for us). The Plan is a defined contribution profit sharing plan that owns four life insurance policies with a total cash surrender value that comprises ~40% of plan assets. Are these contracts required to be reported on Form 5500 at cash value? I am being told by the Plan's third party administrator that they have never been reported as Plan assets because Form 5500 Schedule H Part I it states: "Do not enter the value of that portion of an insurance contract which guarantees, during this plan year, to pay a specific dollar benefit at a future date.". I am hoping to get some insight and/or pointed to some guidance as I am not too familiar with qualified plans that offer life insurance. I have had a few in the past where the value has been reported but the value was not significant to the plan, so it was never a sticking point with respect to our report. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Bird Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 I believe 100% that they should be reported. The operative words are "guarantees...to pay a specific dollar benefit at a future date." They don't! I believe this section is referring to annuities that are purchased to provide specific benefits (and/or maybe insurance policies in DBs fully funded with insurance). I've seen otherwise very knowledgeable TPAs exclude them (you have to consider the premiums as "expenses" which I find ridiculous) so I guess you could say there are differing viewpoints, although I'd have to say those other viewpoints are wrong. letsgoisles89 and Bill Presson 1 1 Ed Snyder
shERPA Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 This is a debate that goes back at least 30 years. The form instructions are clear for unallocated contracts and contracts that guarantee a specific benefit. But as Bird notes this is not what most policies do, and on all these other policies the instructions are silent. I don't really care if they have to be reported or not, I would just like DOL to state whichever it wants clearly in the instructions, so we can put this to bed and argue about other stuff, like amending safe harbor plans! ? letsgoisles89 1 I carry stuff uphill for others who get all the glory.
CuseFan Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Bird said: I believe this section is referring to annuities that are purchased to provide specific benefits (and/or maybe insurance policies in DBs fully funded with insurance). I think Bird is correct, only paid up allocated annuity contracts are excluded. letsgoisles89 1 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
Larry Starr Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 6 hours ago, letsgoisles89 said: Hi all, CPA here working on a Form 5500 audit (new account for us). The Plan is a defined contribution profit sharing plan that owns four life insurance policies with a total cash surrender value that comprises ~40% of plan assets. Are these contracts required to be reported on Form 5500 at cash value? I am being told by the Plan's third party administrator that they have never been reported as Plan assets because Form 5500 Schedule H Part I it states: "Do not enter the value of that portion of an insurance contract which guarantees, during this plan year, to pay a specific dollar benefit at a future date.". I am hoping to get some insight and/or pointed to some guidance as I am not too familiar with qualified plans that offer life insurance. I have had a few in the past where the value has been reported but the value was not significant to the plan, so it was never a sticking point with respect to our report. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Sorry, but there is no question here: they must be reported. I remember when that exclusion was written; it was for GUARANTEES (that is: annuities), not life insurance. PERIOD. A life insurance contract DOES NOT guarantee to pay a specific BENEFIT (RETIREMENT BENEFIT) at a future date. Besides, from a logical standpoint there is a reason why they specifically excluded REAL ANNUITIES and that logic does not apply to a life insurance contract. Eve Sav and letsgoisles89 1 1 Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFC President Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. 46 Daggett Drive West Springfield, MA 01089 413-736-2066 larrystarr@qpc-inc.com
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