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Message Boards Digest

March 9, 2021

Here are the most recently added topics on the BenefitsLink Message Boards:

BTG created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Aggregate Plans for ACP Testing Only (Not for ADP Testing)?

"Can two plans be aggregated for ACP testing, but not ADP testing? (Note: I'm using 'plan' in the colloquial sense here.) I understand the the 401(m) and 401(k) components of the plan are separate 'plans' under 410(b), but Treas. Reg. 1.401(m)-1(b)(4)(iii) and (v) indicate that this treatment does not apply for purposes of permissive aggregation under the ACP testing rules. I take that to mean that, if you aggregate plans for ACP purposes, you also have to aggregate them for ADP purposes. However, I have found surprisingly little discussion on this topic thus far."

0 replies   |    27 views   |    Add Reply
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Santo Gold created a topic in Distributions and Loans, Other than QDROs

What Death Benefit for Second Spouse in Light of Earlier Designation of First Spouse Prior to Divorce?

"This involves a fairly standard smaller 401(k) Plan that started in 2016. At that time, all participants completed a beneficiary form. The one participant completed his, naming his spouse as primary beneficiary and his son as contingent beneficiary. In 2018 the participant divorces and then marries spouse #2 -- but never changes the beneficiary form. In 2020, the participant dies. Even though a new beneficiary form was not completed, the new spouse would be the beneficiary, is that correct? Is that automatic?"

1 reply   |    37 views   |    Add Reply

ratherbereading created a topic in 401(k) Plans

What Effect Is Allocable Income on an ACP Test Refund?

"Have a plan that failed the ADP ACP test. Participant is 60% vested. Relius is showing Allocable Income on the ACP correction. Is it 60% of the Refund Amount that is forfeited? How does the Allocable Income come into play then?"

2 replies   |    39 views   |    Add Reply

Chippy created a topic in IRAs and Roth IRAs

Rollover of Assets from Qualified Plan to IRA -- Creditor Aspects?

"If a participant rolls over their qualified retirement plan into an IRA, are the assets protected from creditors like they are in the qualified plan?"

2 replies   |    27 views   |    Add Reply

ldr created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Two commingled plans in one trust fund?

"Good afternoon to all: An existing client with a 401(k) plan for his Company A at John Hancock has made us aware that he owns 50% of another very small Company, B. An unrelated partner owns the other half of Company B and has nothing to do with Company A. Company B has 5 employees, 2 of whom want to participate in the 401(k) plan of company A. Since our client does not own 80% of company B, we do not have a controlled group. We just also found out that we definitely do not have an affiliated service group. We are going to do a separate plan for Company B. However, only for purposes of funding the plan for Company B, could the two people who want to participate be added to the existing plan at John Hancock for Company A? It's probably going to be expensive to set up a separate trust arrangement at John Hancock for just two people in a tiny plan, and we were wondering if they could be added on to the Company A plan just for funding purposes. They could be listed as a separate "division" just to make it easy to spot them on reports, but is there anything "wrong' or "illegal" about putting on two employees who are in a different plan? Thoughts? Your advice is appreciated."
6 replies   |    57 views   |    Add Reply

5500Nerd created a topic in Form 5500

H&W Form 5500s and Self-Insured Captive Plan

"I freely admit that I am not able to understand the inner workings of captive insurance -- it remains as a mystery. Nevertheless, I'm preparing a health and welfare Form 5500. The group notes that they have a self-funded captive benefit. I assume I should treat this as a self-funded benefit and ask for no Schedule As. Correct?"

0 replies   |    15 views   |    Add Reply

AlbanyConsultant created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Controlled Group, Two Plans, Failing Coverage - Problems!

"Due to purchases, a controlled group has ended up with two plans. Plan R (which I just found out about) is 401k and safe harbor match with no HCEs but approximately 1/2 of the NHCEs excluded in a 'per diem employee' class ('well, we have no HCEs because the owners don't take compensation, so we don't have an issue').

Plan N, my plan, is 401k and regular match, and has 2 HCEs. So I'm pretty sure this is going to fail coverage:

R total NHCEs: 216

R benefitting NHCES (under either deferral or SHM): 114

N benefitting HCEs: 100%

N benefitting NHCES (under either deferral or regular match): 33

I tried for a QSLOB, but the owners say that they are involved in managing both businesses.... yet they don't draw pay from either one. So this is a 410(b) problem on both the deferral and the match side. This is where I'm stuck -- I don't see a way forward. Even making the N plan safe harbor for 1/1/22 might not fix this, because with all those excluded NHCEs in the R plan, that's always about 40% of the NHCE population. How do I fix this?"

3 replies   |    27 views   |    Add Reply

Chippy created a topic in 401(k) Plans

410(b) Fails for Controlled Group

"I have a large plan, 1,600 participants, 7 companies, controlled group. 5 of the companies are eligible for a profit sharing contribution, 2 are not. They also have a safe harbor match.

Each individual company passes 410(b) for the profit sharing separately, but when testing together, it is failing. Also fails the Average Benefits Percentage test.

It appears the software is not testing separately the participants with less than 1 year of service nor is it excluding terminated participants with less than 500 hours from the companies that do not receive the profit sharing. The software provider says it is because they are not eligible for the contribution. Is that correct?"

2 replies   |    31 views   |    Add Reply

bzorc created a topic in IRAs and Roth IRAs

Owner of Inherited IRA Dies -- Can Surviving Spouse Treat IRA as Inherited?

"In 2016, a taxpayer inherited the IRA of his brother, and he elected to stretch the IRA. In 2020, he passes away, and the beneficiary is his spouse. Can the spouse take the IRA as her own and continue payments over her lifetime? Or is she subject to the CARES Act 10 year rule? Thanks for any replies."

0 replies   |    10 views   |    Add Reply

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