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Message Boards Digest

December 1, 2021

Here are the most recently added topics on the BenefitsLink Message Boards:

Moosen14 created a topic in 409A Issues

409A Question: Accelerating Vesting/Payment -- Short-Term Deferral Exception

"I want to revisit a post from a few years ago, relating to the acceleration of vesting/payment that is appropriately treated as a short-term deferral.

https://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?/topic/63098-accelerating-payments-under-short-term-deferral-exception/

The question I have is generally whether company discretion to accelerate the vesting payment could serve as a premise the payment is no longer subject to a substantial risk of forfeiture. Below is a brief fact-pattern of a situation that may present this issue, of course the facts are exhaustive so add in any points or items that may impact the analysis.

Example - Under a long-term bonus plan an employee is entitled to as a bonus payment of a portion of net company earnings for years 1 with 50% of the bonus being payable on 3/15 year 2 and 50% payable on 3/15 year three. The plan provides the employee must be employed on the payment date to receive the bonus. An employee wants to retire 1/1 Year three, and the company decides to move up the vesting date and payment of the second 50% payable on 3/15 to the employee's retirement.

My understanding from the previous post is that since the payment was not covered under 409A to begin with, as a short term deferral, the acceleration is permissible and not a 409A violation. My question however, is whether the employer's discretion to accelerate the payment could be argued to no longer make the amounts subject to a substantial risk of forfeiture due to the risk of forfeiture not being substantial due to the company's discretion to voluntary accelerate the payments, cause the payment to fall outside of the short-term deferral. I know this is a facts and circumstances test, but does anyone have any insight on whether the company discretion may impact the substantial risk of forfeiture analysis? Thanks in advance for your time in reviewing and responding!"

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austin3515 created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Orphan Match / Individual 402(g) Limit

"Participant maxes out his 401k at Employer at $26,000. He starts a new job in December with immediate eligibility and a match. My advice is go ahead and contribute to get the match and then request a refund of your 401k after year-end.

My recollection (which I cannot confirm) is that such a refund request would not kick off an orphan match situation requiring match forfeitures. The logic of course is the employee could request the excess refund from either plan. Anyway if someone can set me straight one way or the other I would appreciate it. Completely different of course than someone getting matched on 401k over $26,000 in the same plan or even for the same employer."

4 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

steve45 created a topic in 401(k) Plans

404 Deduction Cap -- Which Contribution Sources Are Counted?

"Total compensation for all eligible participants = $950,000

Then, 25% of total compensation = $237,500.

Which sources will be counted towards that deduction cap? (Profit sharing, Safe Harbor, Matching Contribution, etc.)"

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

BG5150 created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Eligibile for PS Contribution if Terminated on Last Day of Plan Year?

"Two separate questions. Plan Year is July 1 to June 30.

[1] PSP has last day requirement only. If someone's last day worked is 6/30, do they a PS allocation? Why or why not?

[2] For 5500 participant count. If last day worked is 7/1, are they considered 'active' for 5500 purposes at the beginning of the year? Why or why not?"

3 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

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