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January 8, 2024

Here are the most recently added topics on the BenefitsLink® Message Boards

J Simmons created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Ordering of Returned Contributions When 402(g) Limit Exceeded

"High earner under age 50 works for two employers. For 2023, he electively deferred $22,500 into one employer's 401k plan as Roth. In the other, he electively deferred $7,500 as tax deferred. He will have to have $7500 returned to him. Is there any ordering of such, i.e., Roth before tax deferred or tax deferred before Roth, that must be followed or can he choose whichever?"

2 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply
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KJJ-TPA created a topic in 401(k) Plans

M&A Question

"We have a client 'Company A' who sponsors a 401(k) plan and recently purchased another business 'Company B' via stock-sale late in 2023. Company B also sponsors a plan and that plan was not terminated prior to the close of the sale. The plans can't be merged mid-year, so we were planning on merging the two plans for 2025 and relying on the transition relief period through 12/31/2024. We were just told that Company A signed on as Plan Sponsor of Company B's 401(k) plan, has moved all of Company B's employees onto Company A's payroll, and still has those same employees participating (deferring and receiving match) in Company B's plan. What do we do here? My first thought would be that the employees who were moved to Company A's payroll would also move to Company A's 401(k) plan, but it's confused by the fact that Company A is now the Plan Sponsor on both plans. Did they knock themselves out of transition relief? If so, do they need to do a corrective amendment for the 'carveout' of employees still participating in Company B's plan and now they need to pass coverage?"

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EPCRSGuru created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Odd Letters from Social Security Administration

"I work in HR benefits management and just got two odd letters from the Social Security Administration about two of our employees. They were basically performance appraisals. They asked questions such as 'did the person show up for work on time?', 'did they need extra assistance in performing their jobs?' or 'did they need additional time to perform their duties compared to employees in similar positions?' I have never seen anything like this before in my very long career. One person is retirement-age but the other is not anywhere near old enough for OASDI benefits. Does anyone know what on earth this is about? Has SSA potentially 'outed' employees who might be applying for or receiving disability benefits?"

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

Jakyasar created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Is Top Heavy Required for This Employee?

"Combo DB/401k plan, top heavy For 2023, owner and spouse are the 2 participants in the 401k and only owner is in the DB (spouse does not work enough hours to be eligible -- assume all kosher). They hire an employee who will become eligible in both plans as of 1/1/2024. Employee makes big bucks in 2023 therefore HCE for 2024. During 2024, employee will be 20% owner (not as of 1/1/2024 though). Let's say employee will be a 20% owner on 3/1/2024. DB plan has 0.5% of pay formula and states all top heavy is provided under 401k plan. Employee will be in the DB plan for 2024 so no 401a26 issue. 401k plan's top heavy provision states for both key and non-key. For 2024, owner defers max and employee will not defer. There will be no PS allocation. Employee is not excluded under the 401k/PS categorically. So, does this employee need to get any kind of top heavy allocation for 2024?"

3 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

austin3515 created a topic in 401(k) Plans

LTPT Questions That Thread the Needle

"Trying to write some formulas... Plan Year End = 12/31. Participant is hired on 12/31/2023. Their first 12 months is finished 12/30/2024,which is year 1. Their 2nd year (assuming switch to plan year) is calendar 2024. Agreed? And if their hire is 1/1/2024, and their 12 months is finished 12/31/2024, because that coincides with the plan year exactly, clearly we would not count the same exact 12 months, right? I could see someone (especially a formula if one is not careful) mistakenly crediting the same 12 months twice because it counts both the first 12 months AND the first full plan year)."

3 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

cathyw created a topic in Correction of Plan Defects

Correcting 410(b) in a 401(k) Plan

"The only participants previously covered in a 401(k) plan were owner and spouse, neither of whom make a deferral contribution for the year in question. The plan is not safe harbor. It turns out that because of a recently discovered ASG situation, 3 NHCEs of a member of the ASG have to be covered for 410(b) purposes. Under the 11(g) regs, coverage should be corrected by retroactive amendment and a QNEC equal to the ADR of the NHCE group. How do you determine the QNEC when there's no ADR for either HCEs or NHCEs for the year? There's also a cash balance plan affected. These NHCEs will be retroactively covered, provided with a meaningful benefit under (a)(26) and receive profit sharing contributions in order to satisfy (a)(4) on a combined basis. But how to correct the 401(k) component?"

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

Jack Stevenson created a topic in 457 Plans

457 Withdrawal

"Had a spouse in 2005 who had a 457 Plan that was divided during our Divorce. I have my suspicions that my ex-spouse withdrew some of the funds from that account ... and I just would like to know what are some kinds of circumstances/reasons that allows someone to withdrew from a 457 Plan account?"

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

austin3515 created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Employer Contribution Tax Credit / FICA Wages

"Would it be fair to say that 'FICA Wages' = Total Compensation less Section 125 premiums? Lots of articles that throw around the term 'FICA Wages' like 'everyone knows what that means.' "

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

KevinMc created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Plan Mergers/Controlled Group

"In the event of a common owner that meets the definition of a controlled group buying multiple companies (some with plans, some without plans, some with safe harbor plans, some without safe harbor plans): how long since the acquisition of any particular company with any particular plan does the new ownership structure have until they must test all plans together and presumably offer the plan to companies it has acquired without one? Participant notifications?"

3 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

Belgarath created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Restatement Windows for 403(b) and DC Plans

"The 2-year restatement window for 403(b) plans is currently scheduled to open 1/1/2025. If the restatement window for 401(k) plans opens 1/1/2026,then the two will overlap. Originally, (in a galaxy long, long ago and far, far away) I seem to recall that the 'regular' pre-approved plan cycles were going to be timed such that they would not overlap, but I'm not certain of that. This could create some challenges. Do you know if anyone has suggested to the IRS (document providers, ARA, etc.) that the 2-year DC Cycle 4 restatement window not open until 2027, to avoid this overlap? And if so, even unofficially, was the IRS at all receptive to the suggestion?"

2 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

not sure created a topic in 409A Issues

Excess Benefit Plan Mistakes

"Participant in plan received their first statement after more than 20 years in the plan (statement provider sends annual statements to the ER for distribution). Statement said they would receive $20,000 per month for 5 years after retirement. Participant did NOT receive another statement for over 2 years. New statement, two years later, said one time payment of $20,000 (not monthly for 5 years). Participant questioned ER as well as statement provider. Six months later ER instructed statement provider to replace the 2 year old statement to reflect a one time payment of $20,000 not a monthly payment for 5 years. After further research, I am concerned that other eligible participants were excluded from the plan. The ER is publicly traded and has made statements in their annual report the plan is governed by ERISA. In house legal team does not believe there are any issues. I am concerned that there may be ERISA violations as well as 409 issues. Any thoughts or direction to codes would be appreciated."

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