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ok, since I am posting this it is questionable as to whether it is humor or not, certainly as questionable if not more so than any posts on the pension board I make. warning: read at your own risk, maybe best on an empty stomach. ............................................ Fred was in the fertilized egg business. He had several hundred young' pullets,' and ten roosters to fertilize the eggs. He kept records, and any rooster not performing went into the soup pot and was replaced. This took a lot of time, so he bought some tiny bells and attached them to his roosters. Each bell had a different tone, so he could tell from a distance, which rooster was performing. Now, he could sit on the porch and fill out an efficiency report by just listening to the bells. Fred's favorite rooster, old Butch, was a very fine specimen, but this morning he noticed old Butch's bell hadn't rung at all! When he went to investigate, he saw the other roosters were busy chasing pullets, bells-a-ringing, but the pullets, hearing the roosters coming, would run for cover. To Fred's amazement, old Butch had his bell in his beak, so it couldn't ring. He'd sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one. Fred was so proud of old Butch, he entered him in the Brisbane City Show and he became an overnight sensation among the judges. The result was the judges not only awarded old Butch the "No Bell Piece Prize," but they also awarded him the "Pulletsurprise" as well. Clearly old Butch was a politician in the making. Who else but a politician could figure out how to win two of the most coveted awards on our planet by being the best at sneaking up on the unsuspecting populace and screwing them when they weren't paying attention. Vote carefully in every election, you can't always hear the bells.

What frustrates me is that there should be PTEs for other arrangements because, as you have observed, there is no harm. That is why we have the PTEs that we have -- no evil under the prescribed circumstances. What frightens me is that there may be some PTE or other analysis or guidanance that says there is no PT sanction in other similar circumstances and I just can't find it. Consequently my clients are schmucks who end up being restricted because they have the "benefit" of my advice while everyone else is having a good time and getting discounts.

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/regs/fedreg/notices/2002031366.htm Section I: Covered Transactions (PTE 97-11) ...the sanctions resulting from the application of section 4975 of the Code... shall not apply to the receipt of services at reduced or no cost by an individual for whose benefit an IRA or...a Keogh Plan is established or maintained... from a broker-dealer registered under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 pursuant to an arrangement in which the account value of, or the fees incurred for services provided to, the IRA or Keogh Plan is taken into account for purposes of determining eligibility to receive such services, provided that each condition of Section II of this exemption is satisfied. Part of me says a big part of this exemption is the receipt of services at reduced or no cost, but I guess the point is the assumption is reduced. And then it goes on to say that the PTE does not apply to plans covered by ERISA by extrapolation means no such arrangement taking into account outside assets would pass muster in an ERISA Plan. So QDROPhile, you have convinced me (and impressed me).