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"PS-58" costs are imputed income - not cash income - there's nothing to distribute. It's a reporting amount dependent on how participant takes insurance contract. At death, no "basis" rather amount "ar risk" (pure death benefit) is received by beneficiary income-tax free.

Facts: married couple, they contractually agreed to waive each other as death benefit beneficiaries and to consent to the other's waiver as required under ERISA. The only concern of each plan is that the proper QPSA or (DC) similar election forms and consents are validly executed. It's up to the blissfully (?) married couple to fulfill their contractual obligations to each other. If one has to go to court to secure compliance from his/her spouse, so be it. One thing I know for sure is that I would not want to be living next to this couple!

Another possible thought is that because the match was discretionary, the employer's announcement to the employees for 2021 did not constitute a plan amendment but a guarantee that the minimum discretionary match for 2021 would be equal to at least 2%. I agree that a true-up would be advisable for 2021 which could be made up to the due date of the sponsor of Plan B's tax return. While it would be belt and suspenders to amend Plan B to provide for a minimum 2% match with discretion to make a higher percentage match, I do not think it is strictly necessary in this context. Think of this in this manner: what if the plans had not merged and B's sponsor did not do as well economically for 2022? B's sponsor could decide not to continue the 2% approach in 2022 and make a match (or not) at the end of 2022. Why tie the employer's hands if it is not strictly necessary?

I've been accused of talking to myself before but in this case no. I was responding to your "first time I..." question.

IMHO

So for 2021 Plan B was doing 2% match per payroll but document says annual discretionary match? Sounds like you may have a possible true up contribution for B for 2021 where you'd deposit to the contribution to the surviving merged Plan A. That is if you do need a true-up, treat it as a receivable as of 12/31/2021 that was transferred to Plan A on January 1/1/2022.

not really

Unfortunately not just small CB plans. Which brings whole different set of issues that plan sponsors are thinking about CB plans in terms of 401k plan, that in order to allocate something they actually need to contribute that something. Or because they already withheld something from partners, now they have to contribute exactly what they withheld, not more, not less.

Complicated indeed! I think IRS Notice 2007-7 may be somewhat helpful. Austin - doesn't 1.401A-1, Q&A-4(d) answer your first question if it is a spousal beneficiary? The 5 year clock doesn't restart. As to a non-spouse beneficiary, they can roll over to an inherited IRA, as long as it is a DIRECT rollover, as per IRS Notice 2007-7. The inherited IRA treatment if the non-spouse beneficiary under 408(d)(3)(C) means, I believe, that the "normal" rules apply - that is, the beneficiary may NOT treat it as their own IRA for purposes of minimum distribution rules, and they can't roll it into their own existing IRA. So, for RMD purposes, the non-spouse beneficiary who rolls it to an inherited Roth IRA account, as per 402(c)(11), you look to IRS Notice 2007-7 - see IRS Notice 20078-7, Q&A 17-19. There may be a good writeup of all this out there somewhere, but I surely don't know of one. What little understanding of all this garbage I gleaned only after considerable (as the British might say) "mucking about." Link to 2007-7 - https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-07-07.pdf P.S. - and it ain't like I feel totally confident in this stuff - if it were a real situation I'd have to spend a lot more time...

austin3515, I think this one has an answer. The 5-year period continues to run and can be fulfilled after the participant's death, as long as the account is not distributed. See Treas. Reg. 1.402A-1, Q&A-4(c). For the rest of your questions, I did not readily find an answer in the regs. There seem to be clear (and different) rules if you're going decedent's 401(k) Roth account to beneficiary's 401(k) Roth account, or decedent's Roth IRA to beneficiary's Roth IRA, but I did not find anything that seemed to directly address decedent's 401(k) Roth to beneficiary's Roth IRA. Hope someone else can shed light.

Going from memory, no. Basis recovery for Taxable Term costs can only be used if the policy is distributed to the participant, or surrendered by the trustee. However, caveat emptor - it has been a LONG time since I had any dealings with life insurance in qualified plans. You will hopefully get a response from someone more in tune with this.

Am I only one who is confused by this question? The plan sponsor have to make the minimum required contribution, and may make more than the minimum required contribution. The plan sponsor doesn't really makes deposits on anyone's behalf.