goldtpa

Just spoke with FT William. they said that the IRS told them to use the 2008 5500, just change the dates at the top to refelect the 2009 plan year. Thus the version on FT William is the 2008 5500. It says 2009 5500 on the input screen, however it prints out as the 2008 5500.

I have read the instructions and asked the same question myself. However the instructions for 8f say "The amount to be reported for expenses involving administrative service providers (salaries, fees, and commissions) include the total fees paid (or in the case of accrual basis plans, costs incurred during the plan year but not paid as of the end of the plan year) by the plan for 1. Salaries to employees of the plan; 2. Fees and expenses for accounting, actuarial, legal, investment management, investment advice, and securities brokerage services; 3. Contract administrator fees; and 4. Fees and expenses for individual plan trustees, including reimbursement for travel, seminars, and meeting expenses." Thus only fees go on 8F. The commissions paid to the broker go on 10e.

SoCal, I do need to brush up on this area. However my understanding of Treas. Reg. §1.410(b)-4(b) is that the regulations expressly provide that "An enumeration of employees by name or other specific criteria having substantially the same effect as an enumeration by name is not considered a reasonable classification." Has the IRS issued other guidelines that make it acceptable to exclude people by name?

A DB uses a Vol Submitter and has never been submitted to the IRS for a LOD. The DB excludes people by name. My understanding is that this is not allowed under 410(b). Is this correct?

The 5500-EZ is not open to public inspection. The 5500 and 5500-SF is open to public inspection. You can't find a 5500-EZ on Freeerisa. Thus the people on the board and myself prefer to use the 5500-EZ, to protect the client's privacy. Your client does not need his neighbors to find out how much he has or does not have in his retirement account.

Was referred to the Office Chief Accountant, spoke to a nice lady there. The nice lady at the OCA. said that you MUST file first and then make your payment through the on-line system. The nice lady also said that you CAN NOT use the SF you must use the 5500. However Scarlet was correct. The OCA said that any Schedules like the Sched I or R should be for the correct year the schedule would have been filed. Thus if you have a late 2007 5500, you file the 2009 5500 and the 2007 Sched I. The Sched I has to be scanned and submitted as an attachment. What a pain in the (insert expletive)

It is my understanding that the EFAST 2 system only recognizes the 2009 Form. Thus any attachments would also have to be 2009 as well. I called and asked my 5500 software vendor and they said that their system does not have any of the older 5500s available to file. Thus the late 5500s that I have to file all have to be SFs. I am not doing any of the schedules for the one client I have that is late. He missed 04, 06, & 08. I was told by the 5500 software vendor that each one should be filed seperately. That way I will know which approval corresponds to a specific year. Otherwise I would have three submissions and three approvals, but I would not know which was which.

No thats not right. The late 5500s must be filed using the EFAST 2 system. You would use the 2009 Form, however you would change the dates at the top of the form to reflect the year you are filing for. The box for DFVC must also be checked. Then the client has to go to the DOL's late payment calculator and pay the fine thru an ACH payment. DFVC Calc My question is, which one do you do first? I would hate to find out that the client files thru EFAST 2, then makes an e-payment, and still winds up with a penalty. Or the EFAST system wont accept a late filing until payment has been made first. I have a call into the DOL. Hopefully they will know.

#19 is Armageddon with Bruce Willis # 15 is Cliffhanger with Sly Stallone # 14 Gremlins and I did not look at the answers

This was a nice distraction from 5500s and ADP tests. I got 2, 4, 11, 15, 19. At some point you have to tell us the answers.

I agree that the EZ is the better choice to file as its not public info. But the questions are 1. Has anyone else heard that the EZ might be released late summer? 2. According to DOL, companies that are EFAST2 approved will be able to file the form electronically AS SOON AS the final form is released. Has the Form 5500 and/or the Form 5500-SF been offically released?

Just heard from the grapevine that the 5500-EZ wont be ready until late Summer. Is this true? If so, I wonder when the due date will be. Also, a friend of mine told me that the 5500 and the 5500-SF have not officially been released. Yet FT William says that they have been submitting forms to the DOL. Anyone got a clue?? Thanks.

Why is it that the last two Presidents want to get rid of 401ks as opposed to making them better? First it was Bush with his LSA, RSA, and ERSA Plan. Now its Obama and Retirement Annuities. Obama to meddle with your retirement account?

I too have gotten many letters from IRS. I have had success stating that the 5500 was filed. An IRS agent told me, off the record, to write a letter stating hat the 5500 was filed on time and that the penalty should be abated since this is a wide spread problem. So far IRS abated all of the penalties.

The cross testing has certainly taken center stage. However, the bill also seems to get more part-timers into the 410b coverage test. That would be bad news for 401ks as more companies would have to provide benefits for part-timers. The small business market already hates the fact that they have to provide 401k benefits to employees who work 25 hours per week. I cant imagine telling a small business owner that they fail the 410b coverage test and tell them to start covering the part time employees who work 15 hours per week.

I agree with pmacduff. The PSP market will disappear. Doctors are all to happy to max out while giving their employees 5%. With the reduction in psp contributions due to the proposed Cross Testing regs, Doctors will stop their psp contributions and stick with the SH 401k.

Dr. G owns 100% of his MD PC. He also owns 90% of Company B which is his practice. Company B sponsors a PSP in which Dr G. gets the max contirbution. Dr G also owns 75% of company C. The other 25% is owned by a separate person. Company C performs services for company B but has other clients. Company C also has its own ee's. All three companys operate out of the same location. Dr G wants to set up a 401k for company C and he wants to contribute the full 16,500 despite maxing out on his psp. The current TPA said that B & C do not meet the brother sister rules or parent subsidy rules. Lets see, 5 or fewer people do own more than 80% and the same 5 or fewer people own more than 50%. Am I missing something??

Does anyone really think that the 16,500 will be reduced to 16,000 due to deflation???USA Today - In 2010 IRS could cut 401(k) contribution limit to $16,000

Company A merged their 401(k) into subsidiary B's 401(k) plan. Company A did not do ADP test for 2008 before merging the plans. ADP test for Co A fails, testing the companies separately. Now money needs to be returned to the HCEs of Co A. I believe that the distribution must come out of the merged 401k plan to satisfy the ADP Test. However does the interest have to come out as well, since the merged plan accepted money that was not eligible to be rolled over? Thanks.

Appleby I would agree with you. However, what would you do if you had a loss in the account. Would you figure out what the ee would have had in the account, had the money been deposited correctly, and then transfer that amount? Or would you treat it as a late contribution and then deposit the principle plus the interest. I am assuming that the financial institution would have to pick up any losses to make the employee whole as it was their fault?

My wife has a 403b. I have been telling her employer for years that the plan is an ERISA plan, yet they have not filed 5500s. CPAs claim one is not necessary. Well her employer finally decided to look into the matter and spoke to an attorney who said that they have a 403(p) plan and that they are in compliance. I have never heard of a 403(p). I looked at the regs and I believe 403 only goes to section (d). I did find one thing on 403(p), which was health benefits for former spouses of CIA employees. I do not believe this to mean the culinary institute. So either 1. this attorney is making this up 2. 403p is really a plan for non-profits, schools, hospitals etc and I need to brush up on my 403 plans Please let me know which it is. Thanks in advance

Andy this is what I had originally heard. This is a quote from JP Morgan Newsletter. Its on the 2/11 Benefits News. I posted the link below. Whether anything they do will apply to 2008 is a question. Maybe its in the stimulus bill?? "As Congress continues to wrestle with stimulus legislation, it is also considering proposals to provide new defined benefit funding relief, adding to the relief provided in the Worker, Retiree, and Employer Recovery Act (WRERA) passed in December of 2008. " JPMorgan

Andy Thanks.

Can anyone confirm the fact that Congress is thinking about changing how DBs value assets for EOY 08 valuations, 09 valuations and for AFTAPs? Thanks

mjb A client of mine heard that Pres. Obama said something about the PBGC and the fact that he would not let it go bankrupt. I checked with another TPA to see if he heard anything about it. he said yes he did. The TPA I checked with, stated that Pres. Obama inferred that PBGC distress term may or would not be available to underfunded pension plans, whose underfunding was due to the market losses in 08. I agree with you, how would he do it? The question is did he infer it in a statement he made? The TPA I spoke to was surprised that in the first days in office, Pres. Obama was addressing this. Thus I have to believe that something was said. Just what it was I do not know.