david rigby

let's not mix the issues. A QDRO is for the wife to waive (or determine) any portion of her interest in HIS benefit. Waiver is probably easier than dividing. If properly written, one QDRO may be able to take care of both plans. However, this does not have any bearing on HER benefit under either plan. With regard to 415, each has ac accrued benefit in the DB plan and an account in the DC plan. Each is subject to 415, on its own. [This message has been edited by pax (edited 02-22-99).]

It depends on the wording in the amendment. If the new definition is silent, then a reasonable interpretation may be that it affects all years compensation. That is OK, as long as the 411(d)(6) protection applies to the accrued benefit as of 1/1/96 (or adoption date of the amendment if later).

i have a conventional DB plan with a special minimum: the benefit provided by a prior account under a money purchase plan, with earnings. That is, the DB plan is a restatement of the money purchase plan. As you might expect, the conventional DB accrual is often less than the benefit from the account balance. By the way, the account balance is credited annually with actual earnings, no min. or max. Question: what is the guaranteed benefit for PBGC premium purposes?

I don't agree with your analysis of the Regs. My read of 1.416-1, Q&A T-24, is that the accrued contribution is included. Therefore, the 12/31/97 T-H ratio of 66.67% would stand as applicable for the 1998 plan year.

the coverage test of IRC 410(B) looks first at percentages of EEs covered by a plan, without regard to whether the multiple plans are comparable. If the % test is not passed, then you use the average benefits test, which does look at the level of benefits (using an "average benefit percentage"). If you fail that test, you fail. You may be able to pass either by adjusting the ratio test, or the average benefits test, but not necessarily both. but don't forget the SLOB rules under IRC 410(B)(5). You stated that this is a controlled gorup of banks, so normally that would exclude a SLOB, but I think there is also a special SLOB exception where the business is geographically distant from the rest of the controlled group, so that it might be a SLOB on that basis (please check this). If you don't have a SLOB, then the expansion of the coverage may be the easiest way to deal with this. [This message has been edited by pax (edited 02-10-99).]

good start. "Comparing" can mean several things, such as coverage (percentage and types of EEs covered by any plan), or benefits (level of total benefits). I'm still not sure what you are asking.

Even though plan sponsors are no longer required to send the DOL a copy of SPDs, it may be possible to obtain a copy of one from them. I suggest contacting the Pension and Welfare Benefits Adminstration (PWBA) agency of the DOL. Try www.dol.gov/dol/pwba/

No. As you said, the plan was terminated. Therefore, no entity is "maintaining the plan". However, the insurance company does now have responsibility for payment of benefits. It probably does not have responsibility to track down the individuals when they reach 65 (or whatever retirement age); if the EEs were notified (properly) of the annuity purchase, then the EE must contact the ins. co. to start payment of monthly benefits. The annuity must contain all the features of the original plan, such as the ability to elect Early Retirement, optional forms of benefit, etc.

What is the purpose of the comparison? Need some more description of what you are asking and what you are doing with the comparison.

I have several recommendations: 1. This website is terrific. I use it everyday. 2. The "Panel" series of textbooks is pretty good, and is generally user-friendly. 3. Other texts of long-standing, such as "Pension Planning" (publisher is Irwin),and "Fundamentals of Private Pensions" (part of a series published/sponsored by the Wharton School). 4. There are several CD-ROMs that are excellent research sources. Try RIA, CCH, BNA, Spencers, etc. In our office, we have 2: the BNA research service (includes IRC, regs, DOL, PBGC, relevant court cases, etc. Very good.) and a CD of all (or most) of the Panel books (Pension Answer Book, 401k Answer Book, etc. Also good.)

Can you say "daily"?

Unlikely that the ins. co. has the needed files, but no harm in asking. Not sure about the "trustee" part of your question, but my gut feeling is that the ins. co. would not take that role unless they agreed to in the purchase of annuities, and that is not likely unless the annuities were purchased "en masse" as part of a group annuity (i.e. not individual annuities). If the original plan sponsor still exists, no harm in asking for help, but don't be surprised if no one knows where the files are. Is there an SPD? If so, can it be used to answer the question about how a benefit was calculated? Any idea who the consultant was? If so, ask. Keep a record of all requests and the results.

Sounds like the ER is giving "investment advice". If you think that puts the ER at risk, and I do, then be careful.

I stand corrected (I think). Do you meet the conditions necessary to establish a bonafide QSLOB?

If you mean the $10K limit, there is really no good reason that this should be exceeded. Seems like some improvements may be needed in the payroll system. If you mean the 402(g) limit, subject to subsection (8), that might be a bit more difficult.

It depends. The language you quoted is "old" and was common prior to 1988. The age limitation was eliminated in 1987 (I think the statute was OBRA 87), effective with the first plan year beginning in 1988. So, in most cases, that portion of the sentence you quoted is no longer valid in a qualified plan. However, there is an exception. The particular IRC section that no longer permits the age exclusion is IRC 411. Certain plans are exempt from that section, including governmental plans. I have seen a couple of such plans recently that do have a maximum age provision. [This message has been edited by pax (edited 02-03-99).]

No, with respect to the benefits (account) already in existence.

Yes. I am taking the position that the base is established without regard to the funding method and that the amortization period is defined as 20 years from original date. The Code does not discuss funding methods here but clearly identifies the amortization period.

I believe the reference to 414(h) is for governmental plans only. We use it for several hospital plans where the hospital is owned by the county government.

My local AAA office offers the types of items you mention. Perhaps you can arrange some volume discount program; perhaps you can subsidize their membership.

Not sure. Is there a 415 problem there?

I receive a yearly publication from the Society of Actuaries titled "Statistics for Pension Actuaries". It is indispensable; I use it every day. It contains pages of historical CPI information. It may also be online at the SOA website, not sure. Check it out. www.soa.org

The above limitation is contained in IRC 401(l) (subsection lowercase L). I believe this section defines a "safe harbor". If you can pass a general test under the 401(a)(4) regs, then you can use some other integration formula.

I don't think citizenship is the important factor. Is it U.S. income?

Correct. But watch out for top-heavy minimums.