Chippy

The plan doc says......forfeitures attributable to Nonelective Contributions shall be added to any nonelective contributions for the plan year and reallocated among the participants nonelective contribution accounts.

I have a profit sharing plan that has old MP money that still follows a vesting schedule. When reallocating forfeitures of the MP money, must that money stay in that source? What's happening is that participants are receiving small amount of forfeitures in that source, and then they terminate before becoming 100% vested and then they have a small amount of forfeitures to reallocate and so on. I only have 319 in forfeitures to allocate among $5,000,000 in comp. Someone earning $45,000 is getting less than $3.00. I'd like to allocate all the forfeitures under the profit sharing source if that's allowed. any other suggestions on how to handle these forfeitures?

Can a plan file the form 5500- SF if they hold a Partnership as one of their assets for the 5 key employees? It is valued annually.

thanks. I put it in other income, and then when I reviewed it, I wasn't so sure.

This is a distribution from a prior year.

When an uncashed participant distribution check is returned to the plan and placed in the forfeiture account, Where should that be shown on the 5500?

thank you. That's what I got too, just looking for reassurance, I guess. There will not be a PS contribution this year, only matching. Do I need to do any further testing? Average benefits?

Plan A has 53 HCE and 173 NHCE , they have EE Deferrals and ER Discretionary in the plan Plan B has 0 HCE and 54 NHCE, they have EE Deferrals and ER matching Can I test these plans together since they have different ER sources? (ratio pct?) What test would I have to run? Average Benefits? And i've seen the 410b run two different ways by different people. For the 401K ratio pct would it be for plan b 54/227 or 23.78% for the non-highly compensated? or 227/227 = 100% since both plans have 401(k). (i'm ignoring the HCE for now) I've been going round and round on this, just looking for someone's else's thoughts. thanks

Yes, they have been filing a 5500 each year. I believe the remaining participants can not be located.

I recently took over a terminating plan from another administrator. The plan terminated in 2010 and has been trying to pay out the participants over the past few years. There are currently 7 participants with a remaining balance. I noticed in the file that the prior administrator requested census info last year, and listed 77 participants with 7 having balances. If it's a terminated plan, wouldn't the plan only have 7 participants, (the ones with the remaining balances)?

thanks. I was just making sure there wasn't something that said you had to do it. They are so time consuming and didn't really want to do them if not necessary.

We have quite a few pooled profit sharing plans with monthly broker statements that do not calculate the gain/loss. How important is it to go through the statements and calculate the realized and unrealized gain/loss? I go through each monthly statement and look for anything unusual, pick out the deposits and withdrawals, fees charged and the rest is income. The plan files the 5500 SF. It is very time consuming to go through the statements and record every sale and purchase to calculate the gain/loss. So, I'm just wondering if there is a reason to go through all that to calculate the gain/loss? If so, is there an easy way to do it? some plans have 100's of buys and sells throughout the plan year. Thanks for your input.

The plan excludes contributions to a cafeteria plan but includes the 401(k) deferrals. Would that have to be tested under 414s? We have always tested it and used 415 comp for testing. This year the testing just isn't working out and I'm struggling as to how to make it work.

The plan compensation definition excludes section 125 contributions to a cafeteria plan. It fails 414s testing. It is my understanding that I can allocate the profit sharing contribution on the compensation excluding the section 125 contributions, but I have to test on 415 comp. Is that correct? when using the 415 comp, the gateway test fails. Do I just give an additional contribution to the participants that are failing based on their 415 comp? About half of the employees received less than 5% of their 415 comp. thanks for you help.

We use FT William for plan administration. It has a lot of good things, but there is also a bunch of stuff it cannot do. Their customer service is unbeatable, they get back to you in less than an hour. You can't beat the price. If you have basic plans, it's great. It's the plans that are "out of the box" that don't work so well.

Thank you Tom. Of course if I include them the plan is top heavy, If I exclude, the plan is not. Probably better to include, better safe than sorry. thanks for you help.

How about for the top heavy testing, would I include their balances/distributions on the top heavy test for 2014? They terminated on 12/31/2012 but had comp/hours for 2013? There are 3 key employees included in this and it makes a difference.

thanks. I'm including them in the test, since this was eligible comp and was eligible to defer.

Working on an ADP test and I have 5 employees that terminated on 12/31/2012 and have comp and hours in 2013. It's their last paycheck of 2012 that was paid in 2013. Do I include those participants in the 2013 adp test? I normally do include those participants, but wanted to double check since 3 of them are HCE's and it makes a difference in passing the test. One of them does have deferrals.

Does anyone know if there is a spreadsheet out there that I can use to calculate the earned income for the plan from the Self Employment earnings for a partnership? I have 2 spreadsheets that I use but neither one addresses the Section 179 expense. At what point does the Section 179 expense get deducted?

the company is only making the 3% top heavy minimum to non-key employees. After deducting his share of the employees contribution, and his self employment tax, he has deferrals of 17,500 and a match of 1,500. his earned income comes to 140.146. So does that make him a 1% owner earning less than $150,000 and non-key eligible for the top heavy minimum? or can I use his self employment earnings of 151,010 and say he is a 1% owner earning over 150,000 and therefore is a key employee?

My plan is a LLP and one of the partners has Self Employment Earnings of 151,010.00 before any deductions. he owns 1,20% of the company. When determining if he is a key employee, do I use his self employment earnings which are over 150,000 and would be considered Key or his earned income compensation, which is below the 150,000, which would make him non-key. Not sure if he should be receiving a top heavy minimum contribution.

One of my clients would like to put in 12,000 in deferrals, 5,500 in catch up and 39,000 as a profit sharing. Would that be allowed? I told them no, and then they wanted to see where that was written in stone. I couldn't find anything that specifically said that. Anyone know?

There isn't a box on the 8955 that says final, so I guess there is not a final SSA. I can file the 8955 electronically, no signature is needed to file electronically on the IRS FIRE site. So, I think I am ok with filing for an extension for the 8955 until the FIRE site becomes available in February.

Yes, a paper copy could be filed, but with this client, it would be easier to file it electronically. It was a Dr's office, the practice closed and when the office closed, my contract was left go and the Dr is very hard to get a hold of and almost non-responsive. It would just be easier for me to do it electronically if possible. I just wasn't sure since this is the final 8955 if it could be done. If the FIRE site was up and working, I would file the 8955 on time too.