mwyatt

Think I'm seeing a trend here. Despite instructions on 5558 saying to list multiple plans of sponsor with same PYE, FYE on one 5558 rather than 5558 for each plan extended, now on my third separate sponsor where the second plan listed is being dunned for late filing (first plan in each did receive approval letter, and yes, forms were filed before 10/15/2010 with DOL acceptance). Anyone else running into this situation?

Not sure if you have springing costs or not. My understanding (at least in the Relius document world) is that the other CG employers aren't automatically in the Plan until they sign on as a participating employer. So don't think your valuation automatically springs to include this new entity until they sign the PA. That being said, you may have issues with coverage with this new group included for 401(a)(4) testing not being covered by the Plan.

Would think logically that the 8955-SSA would fall under the 5500 umbrella (they didn't explicitly say 5500, 5500-SF, 5500-EZ) as a schedule, but logic doesn't necessarily carry through.

Think 1.03 lists forms that IRS does not consider as income tax forms and not subject to requirements. Only form I see not listed is 5330 (SS-4, 2848, 5300, 5307, 5310, 5500 all listed as exempt). So my reading is that you would NOT need PTIN for these filings. From 1.03 Section 1.6109-2(h) provides that the IRS may specify in appropriate guidance the returns, schedules, and other forms that qualify as tax returns or claims for refund for purposes of the PTIN regulations. Consistent with that authority, the IRS hereby specifies that all tax returns, claims for refund, or other tax forms submitted to the IRS are considered tax returns or claims for refund for purposes of section 1.6109-2 unless otherwise provided by the IRS. For purposes of this provision, the term tax forms is interpreted broadly. An individual must obtain a PTIN to prepare for compensation all or substantially all of any form except those specifically identified by the IRS as not subject to the requirements of §1.6109-2. At this time, the IRS identifies the following forms as not subject to the requirements of §1.6109-2: Form SS-4, Application for Employer Identification Number; Form SS-8, Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding; Form SS-16, Certificate of Election of Coverage under FICA; Form W-2 series of returns; Form W-7, Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number; Form W-8BEN, Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for United States Tax Withholding; Form 870, Waiver of Restrictions on Assessment and Collection of Deficiency in Tax and Acceptance of Overassessment; Form 872, Consent to Extend the Time to Assess Tax; Form 906, Closing Agreement On Final Determination Covering Specific Matters; Form 1098 series; Form 1099 series; Form 2848, Power of Attorney and Declaration of Representative; Form 3115, Application for Change in Accounting Method; Form 4029, Application for Exemption From Social Security and Medicare Taxes and Waiver of Benefits; Form 4361, Application for Exemption From Self-Employment Tax for Use by Ministers, Members of Religious Orders and Christian Science Practitioners; Form 4419, Application for Filing Information Returns Electronically; Form 5300, Application for Determination for Employee Benefit Plan; Form 5307, Application for Determination for Adopters of Master or Prototype or Volume Submitter Plans; Form 5310, Application for Determination for Terminating Plan; Form 5500 series; Form 8027, Employer’s Annual Information Return of Tip Income and Allocated Tips; Form 8288-A, Statement of Withholding on Dispositions by Foreign Persons of U.S. Real Property Interests; Form 8288-B, Application for Withholding Certificate for Dispositions by Foreign Persons of U.S. Real Property Interests; Form 8508, Request for Waiver From Filing Information Returns Electronically; Form 8717 User Fee for Employee Plan Determination, Opinion, and Advisory Letter Request; Form 8809, Application for Extension of Time to File Information Return; Form 8821, Tax Information Authorization; Form 8942, Application for Certification of Qualified Investments Eligible for Credits and Grants Under the Qualifying Therapeutic Discovery Project Program

Appears from my reading of Section 1.03 that the only form that a normal TPA shop may encounter not listed as exempt would be Form 5330; however, looks like will be simpler with staff being able to file as "Tax Return Preparers Supervised by..." status. Guess the folks trying to make a killing on ERPA study materials may have to put off that second home purchase for the time being.

Creative, but always thought that the partner's contribution (regardless of type of plan) went on the 1040. Know our regular DB clients are treated that way; don't think there's anything special about a Cash Balance plan that would warrant such an arrangement that would avoid skipping FICA taxes. If your client wants to get around the FICA taxes on contributions, have them incorporate.

Tom, letters were addressed to Ogden, not Lawrence. We attached a cover letter to each return filed; the cover letter with a date stamp is what is coming back to us. Were date stamped on October 18th and mailed from MA, so don't think there is an issue with mailing late (15th was Friday, 18th Monday). Cover letters didn't state "please date stamp and return", so curious why these were mailed back to us (only received about 6 out of probably 100 filings).

We sent several 5500-EZs out to Ogden before the 10/15/2010 deadline. We usually include a cover letter to the form (to identify client, date, etc.). Last couple of days just started receiving the cover letters on some clients back from Ogden with a date stamp as to when received (after the 15th, but forms definitely mailed prior to that date). Anyone else getting something back from the IRS (shades of the old days when they sent back the 5558s).

But in the small plan market (where actual physical retirees being paid out are few and far between) this situation arises all the time with a 5% Owner over 70 1/2.

Was this just a change in sponsorship entity (say, moving from sole prop to incorporated, C to S?). Think the DOL advise is all wet here since they're referencing termination of plan, which definitely didn't happen. Did have a client who went through this goaraound in that same year (EBSA screeners completely blew off the info showing prior sponsor EIN on the form). Stick to your guns and write letters. But don't follow the "advise" DOL gave you.

I'd question the "final" marking of a 5500 myself. What if you add back participants in the future and then go back to 5500/5500SF filing?

Assuming that endorsement dollars put you into 415 $ limitations rather than 100% of Comp limitations then the retirement age issue is somewhat moot. The NRA of 62 and an accrual pattern that gets the accrual to the 415 limit each year will generate same results as the subsidized early retirement (in this case, the PPA changes requiring funding of accrued benefit rather than spreading over working lifetime works in your favor). To be honest, biggest issue with celebrity clients is investments (and the shaky characters involved in peddling investments that are attracted like moths to these types of clients). Buyer beware.

One other code that may apply for a self-employed individual is 3B (know you are S-Corp, but some other solo sponsor may be reading this thread).

If receivable contributions are made after plan year end, then these figures should be different (SB number should be smaller). Now required to discount contributions made after plan year end to beginning of plan year using prior year Effective Interest Rate. This first impacted 2009 valuations.

Tom, on point #2, are you sure about that? Conceptually, interest credit is essentially earnings on an account balance. From a common sense standpoint, I wouldn't construe this as "benefiting", any more than I would think earnings on a profit sharing balance would be considered benefiting (or for that matter, increase in the lump sum of the accrued benefit due to the passage of time as benefiting).

If your TPA firm is the named "Plan Administrator", then you can sign as the plan administrator. But are you really sure that you want to take on that responsibility? I'd think that through myself.

Express Mail guarantee is worthless for sure, but valuable in another sense. My brother usually waits until the last minute before Christmas to ship packages to my kids via Express Mail. Last 3 years in a row delivery was late (but still there by XMas) but as a result shipping became free...

Correct Tom. Here's some interesting verbiage from the SF instructions on the extension item: You are filing using a special extension of time to file the Form 5500-SF annual return/report that has been announced by the IRS, DOL, or PBGC. If you checked that you are using a special extension of time, enter a description of the extension of time in the space provided.

"...whereas a blanket extension would require changes to systems, which may be complicated and costly." Hmmm, if that so, why on Part I, Box D, is the second check box labelled "automatic extension?" Still waiting for the inevitable wave of ID fraud cases arising from the posting of signatures on the Internet courtesy of DOL thinking.

Any updates on release? IRS site still has it as not yet released. We're processing a bunch of filings right now; is there a possibility giving non-release (on June 15th no less) that we may have to file an extension for SSA even with 5500/5500SF already filed? Why the holdup?

Dating myself no doubt, but anyone remember the original TEFRA restatement process? The early birds were "rewarded" by having to rerestate (not a typo) for DEFRA and REA, and this well before fast laser printers. Procrastination isn't necessarily a bad thing when you're dealing with Version 1.0 of anything.

Would agree with abanky. The quarterly penalty is factored into a higher amount having to be contributed to satisfy the minimum funding already; discounting for after contributions is just to get time value of money as of valuation date.

Anyone getting that old feeling that filing early is kind of a "no good deed goes unpunished exercise" at this point? I'm waiting for about the 3rd or 4th service pack myself before diving in on our filings.

Actually, our recent experience with Relius (2 years running of 1099-R outsourcing foulups - plus has anyone actually tried using the 2010 Government Forms software yet? - be prepared for unusability at this point) has made us consider switching pension software rather than operating systems or PC hardware. Have loaded Windows 7 on one machine so far and pleasantly surprised. Will keep testing; so far the compatibility modes have worked to alleviate any problems.

I've been using the same HP12C since 1984; did purchase a special "Anniversary Edition" 12C Platinum 2 years ago and the keys started malfunctioning after a year. Much faster processor, but a piece of junk. The 26 year old version still works fine, albeit with a slower processor. Buyer beware...