chc93

Tom, thank you very much. I actually just found that Q&A#26, then read your response. I should have checked more carefully the first time.

Does anyone know if the Form 5558 extension has to be "attached" to the Form 5500 electronic filing with EFAST-2. Or is mailing to IRS sufficient. Thanks...

Calendar year plan, plan term date 04/30/10. TNC is zero, but there is a shortfall amortization installment. Has there been more info on pro-rating the shortfall amortization installment to date of plan term? Thanks...

As I've posted above, for a PS/401k plan, we have left Line 11 "blank". Also, Line 12 was "No", Lines 12a, 12b 12c, 12d and 12e were all "blank", and Line 13a and 13b were "No". All of the electronic filings with EFAST2 were "Accepted"... no errors or rejections.

One previous post mentioned that they had problems with the DOL signing process if the client did not get a DOL password... I assume they quit the DOL registration process after they got their UserID and PIN, but before they gave themselves a password. This seems to coincide with your note, since to "log in" to the DOL site, they need their DOL UserID and password. Without the password, they couldn't log in to the DOL site. So it may be more probable that the DOL registration process be completed all the way to getting a password, more than having to log back in to the DOL site first. I know essentially none of our clients have logged back in to the DOL site before signing.

We've been leaving it "blank".

Also, note that the paper Form 5500-EZ should be filed at Department of the Treasury Internal Revenue Service Center Ogden, UT 84201‐0027 instead of EBSA in Lawrence, KS.

We have been using the 2008 Form 5500-EZ to file 2009, final or otherwise. Cross out the "2008" at the top right, write in "2009", put the correct plan year dates.

Interesting... I just went to the DOL/EBSA website. The 2010 Form 5500-SF and instructions are already available. So it appears that I can use iFile to file the final 2010 Form 5500-SF before the company dissolves.

A "standard" profit sharing plan with Mar 31, 2010 plan year end. 2009 Form 5500-SF for Apr 1, 2009-Mar 31, 2010 plan year filed on Apr 30, 2010. Plan terminated effective Feb 28, 2010. All plan assets should be distributed to participants (3 total) in May 2010. Company intends to dissolve in late June 2010 after final tax return is filed (by Jun 15, 2010). Thoughts on filing final Form 5500-SF. 1. Can the final 2010 Form 5500-SF for Apr 1, 2010-May 31, 2010 be filed after June 2010 if company is already dissolved (no company/sponsor, no company official), assuming 2010 Form 5500-SF not yet available. All plan assets were distributed prior to company/sponsor dissolved, short plan year ended prior to company/sponsor dissolved, but signing/filing date will be after company dissolved. 2. Can we use the 2009 Form 5500-SF and change the plan year dates on the form and file the final Form 5500-SF prior to company dissolving, if necessary to sign/file while company still active. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

Thank you very much for the information. I'll continue to check for the 2010 forms.... summer sounds just fine.

We have a 3/31/10 plan year end which terminated, and all assets will probably be distributed in April or May 2010. We'll file the 2009 Form 5500-SF (4/1/09-3/31/10) normally. Any ideas on how to file the final 2010 Form 5500-SF (4/1/10 to whenever assets zero out). Any thoughts on if we can use the 2009 Form 5500-SF and change the dates, similar to what we would do for prior year filings?

It appears that your original post asked about SF versus EZ. We have stuck with the EZ for the privacy issue. If you are asking about the "regular" Form 5500 versus SF, we have switched to using SF everywhere we can. It's much easier to complete, and no schedules (A,D,I,R) are required at all. The biggest requirement for using SF, to us, is that 100% of assets must be "eligible plan assets".

An ASPPA ASAP indicated that it had to be postmarked by 12/31/09, which is what we did, in addition to using certified mail. We had one postmarked 12/30/09, and EFAST received on 01/05/10. So far, no rejection letter...

I think the 5500-SF can still be filed. The 5500-SF does not need any additional schedules. For example, for a plan that only has common collective trusts, the 5500-SF can be used without worry about the Schedule D. So, it seems like you report the "Schedule A" stuff on the 5500-SF, and forget the "Schedule D" stuff. That's what I intend to do for now...

We just had this discussion in our office yesterday. Since a Schedule A is not required to be filed with the Form 5500-SF, we decided that line 10(e) will provide the commission information that was provided on the Sch A. Also, if there is more than 1 Sch A, the total commissions of all Sch A's would go on line 10(e). So, line 10(e) is now the "substitute" for the Sch A. Historically, it seemed that the commissions paid was of interest to the DOL/IRS because of the abuses of paying large commissions to "related" parties.

We have a company that does exactly that. It started as 3 401(k) profit sharing plans, each plan with less than 100 participants. Recently, they added more employees/participants, so they actually split the 3 plans to 4 plans, each with less than 100 participants. All 4 plan documents are mirrors of each other. We file 4 Form 5500's. We have been aggregating all 4 plans for coverage and discrimination tests. The company sees this as better than a plan audit.

As far as we know, the IRS auditor simply said that they looked at the contribution levels in the corp tax returns. Besides, even if the industry (and the company) did OK, I don't think that should mean that a drop in contribution to a *profit sharing plan* (even if significant) should indicate a problem with the plan. As you say, if they are starting to look at contributions in corp tax returns for "problem" plans, they will have more work than they can imagine.

We just got a call from a client with a Profit Sharing Plan. Contribution for 06/30/08 plan year end was about $300K. Contribution for 06/30/09 plan year end was $0. IRS auditor said that the profit sharing plan was being audited since the corporate tax returns showed a large deduction for 06/30/08, and zero deduction for 06/30/09. IRS was auditing the profit sharing plan to make sure there are no problems with the plan. We've never heard of this from any other client or plan, where the corporate tax returns were reviewed to look for possible plan audits based on contribution deductions. Maybe a defined benefit pension plan, but why a profit sharing plan. But the basis of the plan audit was a review of corporate tax returns. Anyone hear of this?

Maybe put another way... what would actuary A do if he continued with the plan and HR told him the DOB was previously wrong. I would think that if actuary A was "certain" of the prior census (that is, HR "certified" the prior census), then no changes to prior years should have to be made. After all, auditing census that has been "certified" by HR shouldn't be necessary, should it? If adjustments are required, how far back does this go? Even pre-PPA, there were minimum required, maximum deductible issues. Now, if there were data entry errors, illegible handwriting issues, etc, then maybe adjustments would be required. But, as mentioned above, "it depends", I guess...

According to the EFAST-2 FAQ's, delinquent or amended Form 5500 for plan years prior to 2009 can be filed through EFAST on paper until Oct 15, 2010. See Q4 in the link below... http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq-EFAST2.html

We have already filed a few final "2009" Form 5500's in the last few months, as soon as all assets were distributed, in "paper form" using the 2008 Form 5500. The "due dates" for these plans are after 12/31/09. We intend to file a couple more like this before 12/31/09. Hopefully, Scott Albert's (DOL) comments at the ASPPA annual conference holds up.

We had a company go bankrupt and PBGC took over trusteeship of the plan. We were told that when PBGC takes over, the sponsor requirement for Form 5500's end. We never filed a Form 5500 (final or otherwise) after the PBGC took over. If the sponsor of the plan you're working with is still in business, I don't know if our experience applies. But, if the PBGC has control of the plan, it seems the sponsor's responsibility for filing Form 5500's had ended.

We had 2 plans with 12/31/07 plan termination date, with all assets from both plans distributed in 2008. We filed the 2008 Form 5500-EZ for both plans with Line 10i(1) as "No". One plan was filed in June 2008 using the 2007 form with 2008 dates. The other plan was filed in March 2009 using the 2008 form. So far, no inquiries.

Well, I just got another update from Sungard Relius... http://www.relius.net/News/TechnicalUpdates.aspx?ID=470 Generally, they reinforce the Form 5500 instructions that a plan with a filing *deadline* after Jan 1, 2010 cannot use the 2008 Form 5500 paper filing before Dec 31, 2009. However, they go on to say that... ***************** A DOL official indicated to us that it probably would not reject a paper filing for a short 2009 plan year whose filing deadline is after December 31, 2009, but which is submitted by December 31, 2009. However, a preparer should alert their client there is an element of risk to this strategy. ***************** I guess we can still file the 2009 short plan year using the 2008 Form 5500 paper filing by Dec 31, 2009, but there is "an element of risk"???