doombuggy

Thanks, they share a minor child. My main issue right now is how to file this Form 5500-SF and answer the questions on the Schedule MEP.

So I have a plan that is sponsored by the husband's LLC and the wife's LLC is a participating ER. With SECURE2.0, they would now have to file a Form 5500-SF instead of an EZ. They share a pooled account and neither have employees. I am trying to figure out who to answer questions on the Sch MEP and I think the issue may stem from Part 1 - type of Multiple-Employer Plan. I checked 1c Pooled Employer plan but now I am thinking I should choose 1d Other and come up with a discription - maybe owner only plan that spouse's LLC adopted? In Part II 2e I checked "yes" because the 2 owners are individual working owners. There are no participants besides them, so 2f is 0% and 2g is $0, since all assets in 2d belong to the owners. Any thoughts here?

Thank you. I will figure out the gains.

I will chime in that we use Datair PeWin for admin and FT Williams for documents. I don't care for the system too much - I find it more difficult than the Relius/FIS/Corbel documents that I used for years at other TPAs. It is fairly easy to generate amendments, and I agree, their customer service is great. I just find some items hard to find.

I have a QDRO for a plan and it has awarded a dollar amount to the former spouse Alternate Payee. The date of segregation is 8/2/2024. Is the Alternate Payee entitled to gains on that amount of assignment from the date of segregation until now? I thought the answer was yes, but a co-worker felt that this might not be necessary. Anyone confirm that Alternate Payee is only entitled to the flat dollar amount? Note the plan's assets are held at Hancock, so we will move the amount over to an account for the Alt Payee until she fills out a distribution form. Right now, I am trying to determine how much to move and split it over his 3 sources.

Thanks, I found out the issue was that the "hurricane" link I had didn't mention the 5500, but the "tropical Storm" link did...

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-relief-now-available-to-hurricane-debby-victims-in-all-of-south-carolina-most-of-florida-and-north-carolina-part-of-georgia-various-deadlines-postponed-to-feb-3-2025 The sponsors in the affected areas can get relief on filing their taxes and making deposits, but I don't see where this gives an extension on the 5500 filing deadline? Am I missing something?

Sponsor responded: Interns typically do work over 1000 hours. Interns can work anywhere from 4 (approximately a semester) months – 2 years around here until they graduate and get another job or we hire them. So based on comments from the ARA Director of Regulatory Affairs at ASPPA annual this week (see Bill Presson's comment above) that the class exclusion is legitimate and should still hold - meaning these student interns will not fall under the LTPT employee rule. If the company hires them, they would enter the plan as a f/t employee.

Bill Presson, thanks for that FYI from ASPPA annual. I did not attend this year. John, I did email the plan sponsor to ask her about the interns and her comment. They are an engineering firm, so it is possible that they are college students on the 5 year plan, but I specifically asked what happens - do they terminate, or move on to F/T?

So I have a plan sponsor come back to tell me that their plan excludes interns (which it does) and she is asking if the interns they have would be considered Long Term Part Time Employees. So this is a good question. These interns are W-2 employees. I would think that we cannot exclude interns, unless they work less than 500 hours per year in the look back years? I have no clue who they are or what hours they have worked, she only said "we do exclude interns and our interns stay on forever..." Would interns fall under the "long term part time employee" category, or can they still be excluded?

In my case, husband who is 100% owner of his company and the only employee, set up the plan in 2018. in 2019, wife, who is 100% owner of her company and the only employee, became a participating ER of husband's plan. The plan document does have the proper documentation that her company is a participating ER, as you indicated in your comment. So it sounds like the plan would need to be amended to remove her company for participating; she can then set up her own plan to receive these assets and buy real estate to her hearts content... Would this be a distributable event? Almost like a plan termination? I know nothing about how to set up a spin off at this point, if that is what is needed. In my case, it might be cheaper for this couple to keep the plan as it is when it becomes a multiple ER plan in 2024 and she can buy out side assets held by the plan. In my co-worker's case, the wife's company is the sponsor and her husband who owns his company 100% is the only employee; her company has employees, so it would be better for him to spin off to his own plan, and we just don't know what that entails...

The plan does allow for the RE investment, but what she was trying to do with this third party was remove assets from the current plan, create a new plan and have that plan hold the RE investment. I did just start a new topic about how to "unadopt" into a sponsor plan, as I was talking with a co-worker who is faced with the same problem, except in her client's plan, the sponsor of the plan has employees, while the spouse who is an adopting er, doesn't. In my case, where it is just two companies where the owners are the only employees, it might be fine to leave it as is and let it be an multiple ER plan. But I keep telling the broker that she can buy RE in the current plan, but I think they don't quite understand that the property would be owned by the plan not the person, and that she can't take assets out of the plans as described above. I think I need a drink! 😂

Both I and another co-worker have plans that are a control group where 1 spouse's company sponsors the plan and the other spouse's company is an adopting er. With SECURE 2.0, the control group link (minor children) will go away and thus the plan will become a multiple employer plan. It may, however, be better for the spouse that is an adopting/participating employer to stop participating in the current plan and start up their own retirement plan for 2024 and beyond. Would this just require an amendment to "unparticipate" in the plan they are currently in?

Correct. She has r/o and PS in the plan but the plan only allows for a disbursement due to termination or death... The plan would need to be amended to allow for a w/d of r/o at anytime and maybe a young in-serv for the PS assets. I have told the broker that the plan would own/hold the real estate (been down this road before) but I am not sure they "get it." I agree it could be a problem waiting to happen...☠️

Yes, they apparently do have minor children, hence the control group. I do think that a spin off would be the way to go, but this 3rd party IRA company seems to be telling her that it ok for her to be a participating ER in XYZ, LLC 401k plan and still have a 2nd plan of her own.

I do want to say I have seen this and the first time, I was a red flag for me. Our compliance manager drafted a letter for the plan sponsor, letting them know about the child labor laws, etc. I want to say the child was 12. I have seen this more recently at my current job, and the children were even younger than 10. They were used in marketing the product/whatever. in neither case were any children ever eligible for the plan, they just showed up on the census as being children of the owner and rec'd comp for the year.

She apparently is looking to invest in Real Estate. She wants to take $50k in assets out of the plan she is in now and invest it in real estate under a 2nd 401k plan that I guess would be titled under her company name. Each of these companies only have 1 employee - the owners - so I don't understand how her company could be a participating ER of XYZ LLC 401k Plan and open a plan under her own company name. Wouldn't that be sponsoring 2 401k plans for the same person/group of people? It's not like there is a group of union employees that the company sponsors a plan for and a 2nd plan that they sponsor for the non-union employees...

So I have an owner of an LLC who is the only employee. She owns her company 100% and her company is a participating ER of the plan that her husband's company (another owner only LLC) that sponsor's the plan. It is a control group for now anyway, thanks to Secure 2.0. She has been talking to someone other than us (her TPA) and her broker and thinks she can open a 2nd 401k plan. Since her company is an adopter of the plan she is currently in, wouldn't she be prohibited from creating a 2nd 401k plan? Since there will no longer be a control group next year because of the family attribution changes, she could spin off her own plan, right? I have done a small handfull of mergers, but this is the opposite and am not sure how this would be handled...

I was thinking this as well. I felt pretty sure this needed to be done, I am trying to come up with plan term fees and we charge a fee for a final 5500 if no annual val/reports are done...thanks for assuring me I wasn't crazy! Been up since 3:30 am. 🙃

I have a plan that apparently has decided to terminate. It is an owner only plan and he has no comp. The plan's assets are around 50k. Plan was created in 2018 and has never had to file a 5500-EZ. Do I need to file one for the final plan year, even though the assets are still under $250k?

I have a combo plan - 401k PSP and CB plan - and the documents were signed in February 2022 for the plan year effective 1/1/2021 (calendar year plan). Does SECURE allow for us to "skip" 2021 filing since it was signed in 2022? Recovering from Ian here...Thanks!

TPAservices at John Hancock have free CE as well. I think my boss is sorry they sent me to FIS in February, as I have been getting so many free CE this year, between ERISApedia and Hancock...

So I have a plan that terminated and their final Form 5500-SF and Form 8955-SSA are due 6/30/20. We are waiting for them to pay our final bill before filing. Because of the automatic extension, if I filed it between 7/1 and 7/15/20, do I have to check any box on the form? Or just send it in like normal? Thanks for your help!

I am unable to connect to my office server, but i believe their tax filing deadline was 4/15/20 (I believe they are a partnership). Since that has an automatic extension until July 15th at this point, they could elect to change their mind (again) and fund the 2019 PS by 7/15/20 and amend their tax return to reflect their current actions - regardless of whether they filed for an extension on their tax return or not?

So client asked me to calculate their SHNEC and PS for 2019 earlier this year. In March they confirmed that they wanted to do both but in April they changed their mind and said they only wanted to fund the required SHNEC. Apparently they have filed their corporate tax return for 2019. Today they came back to me and are asking if they amend their corporate tax return for 2019, can they fund the 2019 PS that we had calculated for them and they later decided not to do? I am having internet problems, so I can't search the EOB. I will be looking thru the paper copy of the 2018 version while I wait for the IT people to come, but thought I would post the question here too. TIA