SJones

Thank you for your reply. Yes, you are right. See in Instruction sheet for SF-5500, "Other income such as unrealized appreciation (depreciation) in plan assets" Thanks to all for your help.

With the long running bull market, last year was the first one since I had this 401k where the value decreased year over year. The markets have been just so volatile.

Hello, Thanks for you reply. Yes, was talking about SF-5500 and yes you are correct that there are Expenses that are listed on a separate line item. I think the confusion is on Earnings/Loss. Since, no assets were sold, there is NO Loss per se. Don;t know if I explained this properly. The reduction is due to Asset Value changes. So, I think the way to enter would be: BOY Balance - 300,000, Earnings - 5000, Contributions - 10,000, Expenses - 100, EOY Balance - 290,000 Does that sound right?

Hello, Based on a unique situation that I never experienced before, am trying to figure out what to enter for Line 8(b). Scenario (with mock numbers but that captures the scenario). Starting Balance - 300,000 Contributions - 10,000 Dividends/Interest income etc. - 5,000 Ending Balance - 290,000 (there was loss in value of assets in the plan). So, question is, on Line 8(b) should I enter -25,000+5000= -20,000, comes from 25,000 loss in assets values and 5,000 income from Dividends/Interest? Then starting balance of 300,000 plus 10,000 contribution = 310,000 with loss of 20,000 leads to Ending Balance of 290,000. Thanks,

Thanks Mike. Yes this is a profit share plan.

Thanks Mike. Should have mentioned that the Dec 31, 2017 balance is what I received from the paperwork from custodian. So basically the question was: Custodian year-end balance does not reflect profit share. Is this reported to IRS or is it just for my internal consumption (to prepare 5500)? If reported to IRS, then my Form 5500 with profit share included for 2017 would not match even though business return reflected this profit share for 2017. If not reported to IRS, then I can include or not the profit share for 2017, as you said, and be consistent in future years.

Hello, Am filing 5500 and trying to see how to account for a profit share for 2017 that was made in Jan-2018. Since it was made in Jan-18, the Dec 31, 2017 balance does not account for this. My business tax did account for this in 2017 taxes. So, question is - Should I add this amount to 2017 ending balance or should I account for in 2018? Thanks,

Thanks Mike. Yes Fidelity has everything in one form whereas Vanguard has different forms for their inward Transfers. And Vanguard has no problems with Fidelity's form and would be able to do an In-Kind Transfer and yes as you noted, I'll be noting final return on 001 plan.

@Mike - It took quite some reading and research to come up with Transfer and then Terminate instead of Rollovers etc. specially considering that I do not do this on a daily basis. So, ended up using same Form from Fidelity twice - one for Plan and one for Plan Assets and Vanguard is happy with that. Vanguard does not need any paperwork for Termination. They have a list of steps to go through and I basically keep the paperwork with myself.

@Mike - Thanks for your assistance. Goal is to simplify my plan stuff and hopefully in a year or so, have employees at which point I'll need a TPA to set up the new plan. I know exactly who to reach out to. :-).

I'm not just transferring my 401k account, the transfer includes the whole plan. At least Vanguard has the form right for inward transfers to Vanguard. That form states: "Use this form to transfer Individual 401(k) Plan or profit-sharing plan assets (“For Benefit Of” accounts only) from another financial institution into your new or existing Vanguard Individual 401(k) Plan account. You must transfer your entire plan. If you have more than one participant account within the plan, you must complete a separate form for each account."

@Bird - I think @Mike has a different opinion (if I understand correctly) and he agrees with my approach. How would you recommend I do this? Just ask Vanguard to transfer assets and terminate plan? Can certainly do that as well but did not want any chance of this process being designated as "Rollover" etc. Thanks,

This is the form that Fidelity wants me to use. Do you have any concerns here? https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/customer-service/transfer-assets-to-fidelity.pdf Under sections 1 and 2, was told to select 'Other' and enter 'Individual 401k account' as Account Type. Vanguard seems to be having a better Transfer Form if I was going from Fidelity to Vanguard - https://personal.vanguard.com/us/litfulfillment/ELFMainResults?cat=MAFM&subCat1=BYSL&subCat2=BMOR Don't know why Fidelity does not have a form that is as explicit as the one that Vanguard has. Would be helpful isn't it? Thanks

Thanks for your comments. Assets in aggregate were not over 250K in the 2 plans last year. So I'm a bit confused on this point that you raised. Should not apply to me. Does Fidelity have a special Form that does this "Employer Action' Transfer that you're talking about? How do I go about ensuring this? The one that I have is - "transfer-assets-to-fidelity.pdf". So, should I then get Vanguard to handle the transfer and termination together? In my opinion there should NOT be any distribution form etc. that needs to be created for this transaction but please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again for your assistance.

@Bird - If you can let me know what bases I'm skipping then I can certainly take a look at them and see. What issue do you see if I transfer assets first then terminate the plan? Anyhow the transfer will be reported on 5500. Thanks again for your assistance.