SSRRS

https://rsmus.com/insights/tax-alerts/2023/irs-extends-tax-filing-deadline-for-hurricane-idalia-victims.html

Thank you Lou. As always, your brilliant and analytical mind is much appreciated. Although a combined rollover might appear to be a distribution in excess of 415, and is NOT the preferred route to use, however, since it can be backed up, the convieant route of one rollover can be taken. I guess, once it is rolled into the wife's IRA, the IRA will report that 4 million was rolled into her IRA, however, that can be backed up as well.

Thank you all as always for the insights. A DB Plan where the owner and his wife are participants is terminating. The owner passed away and his Beneficiary is his wife. Therefore, the wife is entitled to two IRA rollovers (one since she is a participant in the db plan she therefore has a DB benefit, and one rollover as beneficiary of her husband's benefit). The rollovers to the IRA are approximately 1.7 and 2.3 million respectively. ...Is there any reason to rollover each benefit separately, or can one amount of 4 million be rolled from the DB to her IRA? Thank you.

Thank you Effen, and Bri. As usual, your vast knowledge and analytical minds assessed the situation perfectly and much appreciated. Yes, as you say sponsors do benefit in that employee lump sums will go down dramatically. Thus easing the liability burden. We, as well, do not show the PVAB on Participant Statements . However, some clients for their financial statements request separately each year their PVAB. Also are you saying that the pvab is a floor only and to keep the owners pvab consistent you would adopt a plan equivalence of 4.5%,or less? This might be a genius idea if the plan was owner only, and I thank you. However, this plan has some employees as well. So most likely does not pay to lower the plan equivalence below 5%. Rather, we will present it with a disclaimer as you mention. Thank you!

In other words, these fluctuating 417 rates is causing a lot of headaches and explaining. Clients have a hard time understanding how their "benefit" went down by 200k.

Yes indeed. However, the pvab was so high last year because the 417e rates were very low. Therefore, now that the 417 rates have gone up dramatically, even if the 417 pvab is a minimum, and possibly the plan equivalence will now produce a higher pvab to be used (greater of the two) however, the current pvab will still not be as high as the previous years pvab that was based on the very very low 417 rates.

Hi, As always the insights are appreciated. Frozen plan with two owners. Their PVAB is in the 800k range. Next year with the 417(e) rates going up dramatically, the PVAB will be in the 600k range. I understand only the AB cannot be reduced, however, the pvab can. However, will clients be upset that their PVAB is decreasing? Thank you .

Thank you all. It is much appreciated. The money will be given to the participant, the owner, who was the only participant in the plan at that time.

Hi, There is an existing DB Plan with the only participant being the owner. The Corp then hires an employee and wants to join a PEO. How dies this effect the existing DB Plan? Is the new employee really an employee of the Corp? Thank you.

Thank you as always for the insights and knowledgeable responses. A portion of a Plan's assets were discovered as unclaimed funds and returned to the plan sponsor. This was done by a company that specializes in finding unclaimed funds, and this company is charging a fee (commission) for finding these assets. Can plan assets be used to pay this fee? Is this considered a settlor or a non settlor expense? Thank you.

Thank you Bird. Just to clarify... 1. The 60 days is so that the deposit of the plan assets into the Corp account should not be a distribution (similar to when a participant deposits into his account and then within 60 days rolls into an IRA). 2. The plan terminated over 20 years ago. That is why there were no plan doc restatement etc over the years.

Thank you Bill. Much appreciated. If this is not an option (or maybe If a plan document is required and not available anymore from 20 years ago) is it not advisable to deposit it into the sponsor corporate account and then to the IRA, or does the fact that it will be rolled out into the IRA within 60 days, somehow make it more justifiable?

Hi, An MP Plan, owner only, terminated 22 years ago. The owner (plan sponsor and only participant) now received from unclaimed funds, a check made out to the "xyz corporation mny purch" (plan sponsor) for $200,000. There is no plan account anymore. To facilitate a non taxable rollover of this money purchase check to the IRA of the owner, can the check be deposited into the Corp account AND then within 60 days be transfered into the owner's IRA? Similar to a plan distribution that was deposited into the personal account of a participant, that can be transferred to an IRA within 60 days to be a non taxable distribution? Thank you very much for any insights on this.

Problem is ...this late entering of the 5558 into the system is the cause ,some times, of plans getting a late filing penalty notice.

Thanks Nate!

Thabk you again.. Is there a time frame to file an amended return that includes the SB, to avoid the IRS sending the client a letter, re the missing SB. Meaning, does the IRS not send a letter before 15 days or so, or is there no way to know this and just amend asap and hope that it was amended prior to it being picked up? Thank you.

DB Plan owner only . Plan effective 1 1 2014. Owner was working since 2003. Frozen after 12 31 16 year (3/1/2017 frozen) Avg salary 263,000. Terminating Plan now and overfunded. Plan provides to allocate excess assets to the participant up to the 415 limit. Is the 415 Accrued Benefit $5,250 (as the 415 benefit at 2016 was 17,500 and three years of participation at the freeze date of 3/1/2017)? Or is possibly higher due to increases? Thank you very much for any insights.

Thank you so much, the pension maven!

If this is an owner only plan, then aren't you correct in filing the EZ?

Thanks so much Nate. If on the first filing (without the SB), on the 5500-SF, the form SB was not checked off as being required, in the interim, until the filing is amended to include the sb, would that help?

What are the ramifications, if efiled without the SB and then amend a couple of days later to include the SB? Thank you!

Thank you Effen. The accountant is complaining that now with the prepaid off the books, the value etc is lower. This effects if they need a bond etc as thier value is lower.

It was an owner only plan. The owner and his wife both elected a lump sum rollover and the spousal waiver consents were executed.

Thank you.

Truphao, thank you very much. Your knowledge is much appreciated. Can this potentially have a tax impact, since an expense of 567,000 will have to be used to wipe out the prepaid of 567,000? I'm just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks!