Roll from b to k of same employer?

[John A]

If a participant has a 403(B) and a 401(k) with the same employer, can the participant roll assets from 403(B) into 401(k)?

[Appleby]

It depends

As the current version of the law stands- 403(B) assets cannot be rolled to ( commingled with )401 (k) asets.

however, with the passage of EGTRRA-2001, this will be permissible effective 2002

[david rigby]

.... but don't you still need a "distributable event"?

[Guest Tom Geer]

Yes, but that could be a plan termination.

[jlf]

But "plan termination" is not a "distributable event" under 403b7 and or b11.

[Guest RJT]

You would need instead to terminate the a and roll it into the b if you only want one plan. And 1.401(a)(31)-1 Q&A 7 allows the plan, under certain conditions to, to direct the rollovers into the b as the default option withjout an affirmative election by the participant.

[jlf]

It is the rare 403(B) that is an Erisa plan. Most are funded solely by salary deferral with very little employer involvement. RGT and Tom are assuming that the 403(B) is an ERISA plan. Maybe JohnA can tell us if it is.

Best wishes,

Joel L. Frank:confused:

[Guest RJT]

The answer doesn't depend on whether or not the b plan is ERISA. Rolling the a money cleanses it of its ERISA status, and as long as there isn't significiant employer involvement in the b plan, the rolling of the a money into it should not trigger ERISA status for the b. To make sure you avoid ERISA status in the b (as well as avoiding some security law concerns) the amendment to the a plan which sets up this arrangement should also probably state what kind of default investments should be purchased in the b with the rollover funds.

[PMC]

Need some help -

If the 403(B) is not considered established by the employer/ERISA plan, and the 403(B) is funded through individual contracts, how does the employer direct a transfer to the 401(a)?

And even if the 403(B) is considered an ERISA plan can the employer terminate the plan and make distributions to participants?

EGTRRA didn't change the rules to allow trust-to-trust or plan-to-plan transfers from 403(B)s to 401(a)s did it?

I thought it was eligible rollover distributions that could be rolled from a 403(B) to a 401(a)? If the participant isn't eligible to receive a distribution from the 403(B),and it doesn't seem as though plan termination is a distributable event, how is it rolled to a 401(a) plan?