Want to understand how to calculate a New Comp...

[K-t-F]

I want to be able to setup and calculate a New Comp plan.. Can anyone point me to a good source where I can learn ? As much as I dont want to take business away from the one who is doing it for me... I need to know how to do this if I am going to suggest it to a client.

Case I am working on (and I think a new comp would be a good plan) 2004 calendar plan year

Census below shows EE status, then DOB, then comp

Owner A.... 6/62.... $120,000 ....(comp can go higher.. $200K)

Owner B.... 7/61.... $120,000 ....(comp can go higher.. $200K)

EE 1.... 2/56.... $150,000 ....(right hand man, Key)

EE 2....9/57.... $80,000

EE 3.... 11/79.... $32,000 ....(enters 1/05)

EE 4.... 12/70.... $60,000 ....(enters 1/05)

EE 5.... 1/70.... $40,000 ....(enters 1/05)

EE 6.... 6/74.... $80,000 ....(Key)

EE 7.... 6/71.... $25,000

EE 8.... 5/69.... $52,000 ....(spouse of owner)

EE 9.... 9/64.... $52,000 ....(spouse of owner)

EE 10.... 5/63.... $25,000

EE 11.... 11/70.... $60,000

I am not asking for someone to perform the calculation.. maybe an opinion and as stated earlier... point me to where I can read more.

thanks!

[Tom Poje]

someday I will have to write something up on the baisics of cross tested - oh wait, I am suppose to give a talk at ASPA in the fall dealing with this or something similar. Usually such talks involve doing something fancy with cross testing, such as component testing, etc. I just want to do a good basic one on where the E-Bar comes from, how can you tell what a good candidate is, what happens when you add a 401k feature, etc.

Personally I think there are too many factors involved to give a real quick answer-

it depends if you want spouse to get extra, if the goal is to target the right hand man, etc.

Using an average 9 year age difference, 1.085 ^ 9 = 2.08

so if the NHCEs get 5, the HCEa can get 2.08 * 5 = 10.42

and still be in the same rate group. a little bit more when you impute disparity

[Guest merlin]

The two best references I know of are the ERISA Outline Book, and Tom's own Coverage and Nondiscrimination Answer Book (he's too modest to suggest it, so I will). After you get a basic grounding, this board is another terrific resource.

[K-t-F]

Tom was kind enough to answer an email... I will look deeper. I appreciate your replies and look forward to any others.

[Tom Poje]

Merlin:

you are much too complimentary(I am a bit humbled, somehow or other I have ended up with this amount of knowledge about cross tested that I can share) While the book provides a lot of info (as does the ERISA Outline book) the question at hand gets a bit more comlicated. (e.g. there is more than one HCE and there are spouses involved, etc)It gives me a good idea for a new chapter, something along the lines of what makes good candidate for cross-testing.

Unfortunately, at the moment I can't even see my desk.

PATA - 1. if current plan has last day provision you can amend anytime

2. if you go with a class plan, be very careful - if you name one class 'owners'- spouses (and children) are included. better to use the term 'owners not by attribution' or something similar.

-and you have my e-mail, so feel free to write if you get stuck on something, I generally am willing to try and help, but at the moment....well, I would like to see the light of day.

[R. Butler]

I'm definitely no expert on cross-testing, but I did the learn the basics with a bunch of notes that Mr. Poje was kind enough to e-mail me, the ERISA Outline Book (at the end of one of the chapters they go thru examples, that always helps me) & a workbook I got from an ASPA cross-testing workshop.

Not everybody learns the same, but I learn best by finding a resource that gives step-by-step examples. I study it until I can duplicate the example. I then setup "dummy" plans on Relius. I practice until I can duplicate the Relius results using Excel. Once I am comfortable that I can correctly perform the calculations, I then go back & make sure I understand the reasons behind the steps.

I always like to know how to do the calculation before I worry about understanding why. The difficulties I have with many of the workshops I've attended, is that even the beginner courses were too difficult to understand. Invaraiably the lecturer focuses on theory & reasoning rather than actually giving step-by-step examples. If I don't know the steps, I can't focus clearly on the reasons behind each step. (Now thats not always the lecturers fault. Often times in workshops you have individuals attending that are beyond the skill level for which the courses are meant. Those individuals dominate the discussion because they already understand.)

[K-t-F]

So true about the seminars.... the knowledgeable take over and the basics are passed over too quickly for the ones who went to learn in the first place.

I am the same kind of learner and benefit knowing how each step is done and what the next step is in the whole scheme of things. The way you describe your learning process reminds me of my kids in school right now.... repeating their problems until they understand how it works. Practice...practice...practice..

If you have the time to share your "crosstesting for idiots" course I would sit up front ...

[Guest merlin]

Derrin Watson did an excellent web seminar on crosstesting for Corbel last June. It's archived on Corbel's website.

[Guest Gordy]

So, where do you get Tom's book?

[Guest merlin]

You can order it from Panel Publishers directly at www.panelpublishers.com

[Tom Poje]

The story of how I ended up on the book is probably more interesting. no wait, definitely more interesting.

Amy Cavanaugh wrote the original edition. She adds all the good stuff to the book - Davis BAcon information, some info on Puerto Rico plans and a bunch of other stuff.

Anyway, I was doing a Quantech (Relius) training. The boss 'rents' me out from time to time, so I end up doing a training from an administrators viewpoint than a vendors . But not daily! I don't do daily. Usually include some Crystal stuff, and nondiscrim just depends on what people want. (And a pension song!)

Anyway, I had never heard of the book before, nor did I even know Amy had anything to do with it, but I spied a copy on the shelf, so was leafing through it on break. The training was at the company she worked for, so that is what ties all this together. Anyway, I was stupid enough to open mouth, insert foot, and mention some things it would be nice to have in the book. And then of course she promptly said, good, you can help edit all future editions.

Its a Panel publication, but I think Aspen Publishers is the actual name you find it under. Hopefully Mr Baker will let me type www.aspenpublishers.com without incurring his wrath.

[K-t-F]

When does the "Cross-testing for Idiots " come out?

[R. Butler]

How do I get an autographed copy of Mr. Poje's book? Will there be a book signing tour?

[Tom Poje]

was that 'signing' or 'singing'?

some of us gotta work hard at it. not like Blinky who can mass market a toy image of himself!