412(i) Magic Language

[Randy Watson]

I'm trying to figure out whether a DB plan is a 412(i) plan. Is there anyway to figure this out by looking at the plan document and nothing else?

[Guest Carol the Writer]

The giveaway is the definition of accrued benefit. If the accrued benefit is the cash value of life insurance/annuity contracts held on the participant's behalf, then you have a 412(i) Plan. (At least, I cannot think of an exception to this.) The usual definition of accrued benefit in a "traditional" defined benefit plan is either the fractional rule, the unit credit rule, or the 133 1/3% rule.

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

There is no way to fully tell if it's a 412(i) plan solely from the document since there are other requirements to fulfill; for example the plan must invest only in insurance contracts, etc.

[AndyH]

See if the agent has a yacht.

[JAY21]

In addition to the yacht (the dead give away), the plan doc section where the Trust language/investments is found they usually have a statement that "all investments will be made solely in insurance contracts" or something to that effect.

[Lori Friedman]

See if the agent has a yacht.

Ned Ryerson, why are you so quiet? Surely, you must have objections.

[Randy Watson]

Thanks.

[Guest Ned Ryerson]

The slander of the insurance profession is outrageous! Think of what we have to go through. I got hugged by an overly amorous man trying to get a date after all. We work hard trying to swindle, er... sell, to people and deserve every penny as our just reward.

Now who wants insurance!!!

[GBurns]

Yachts in Utah and Montana?

[AndyH]

Ned, I don't know who you work for, but next to my office building there is an office made up entirely of YUPPIE insurance agents who sell for one fairly prominent ins. company. They all have beemers or something similar, wear clothes that look like the 5 non-straight guys on HBO dressed them, complete with slicked back hair and pricey shades. You know, the ultra yuppie beemer convertible look. Most appear to be under 30.

That's OK, but there is a new Yuppie agent that parks in front now and his license plate reads "YACHT". Now thatttttt's outrageous.

[WDIK]

Yachts in Utah and Montana?

Surely we have some posters that are members of the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club in Utah or the North Flathead Yacht Club in Montana.

[Guest Trot Schilling Arroyo]

5 non-straight guys on HBO dressed them

SWHT

Do you mean "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"? My brother-in-law interviewed to be one of the straight guy makeover subjects. He wasn't chosen to be on the show; it turned out that his physical appearance was way too attractive, and his apartment wasn't nearly filthy enough.

[GBurns]

WDIK

Thanks for the geography lesson. It completely slipped my mind that large lakes exist in those places. Living close to the sea all my life has made me forget that there are other bodies of water.

AndyH

There are old saws that explain what you are seeing next door. One is .. Act enthusiastic and you will be enthusiastic. Hence, Act successful and you will be successful. Apparently, they must think that it works.