R. Butler Posted July 22, 2005 Posted July 22, 2005 We are looking for recommendations on DB software. Software would need be able to handle 412(i) plans. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for any guidance.
SoCalActuary Posted July 22, 2005 Posted July 22, 2005 I work regularly as the third party actuary for firms using Datair, ASC and Relius. Each claims they can do this, although the pricing of each is different, based on initial costs vs ongoing cost. Personally, I think Datair is easiest among these three if you are not doing large plans.
Blinky the 3-eyed Fish Posted July 22, 2005 Posted July 22, 2005 I would want 412(i) software that also navigated my yacht. (I wanted to make an Andy-like comment for a 412(i) Friday.) "What's in the big salad?" "Big lettuce, big carrots, tomatoes like volleyballs."
R. Butler Posted July 25, 2005 Author Posted July 25, 2005 Somebody may get a yacht out of this deal, but I suspect it won't be me. My reward is the many hours it will take to me to learn how to properly administer this thing. Oh the joy & satisfaction.
JanetM Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 Every once in a while I think of it as job security........ no one is crazy enough to want my job. JanetM CPA, MBA
AndyH Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 Geez, two days off and I get blamed for mis-quotes of other board creatures by a boiling radioactive fish who is experiencing mirages. There are plenty of 412(i)'ers afloat here with moored yachts who should be able to offer software suggestions without fear of retribution by hot fish or hunters of same.
Blinky the 3-eyed Fish Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 If the yacht fits... http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?s...=28211&hl=yacht "What's in the big salad?" "Big lettuce, big carrots, tomatoes like volleyballs."
No Name Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 As I understand these animals, you calculate a benefit under a formula, then the insurance company calculates a commission and a premium for you. Your job is to smile at the client and tell them what a good deal they're getting. Nice work if you can get it.
JAY21 Posted July 25, 2005 Posted July 25, 2005 Datair does have the capabilities to dump in insurance rates for use in calculating 412i projections/premiums, etc.., and it can handle the 412l additional funding req's for plans with over 100 prts, but it still is definitely a small plan system with minimal pre-retirement decrements. However, it's the lowest priced system that I've seen. The reports are uglier than heck (even for actuarial reports) and not easily dumped into after market report-writer software reports (there seems to always be some glitch or two). ASC as of 5 years ago required a lot of overrides in balancing bases, especially using career avg. plans with traditional UC funding if you ever use that combo. However, they may have improved since then and I heard they definitely "tweaked" their career avg. option. Their (ASC) reports are somewhat better looking than Datair and they (ASC) are windows based whereas Datair has been promising to move to windows for the past 5 years or more. I keep asking questions about Quantech/Relius for DB vals, but no one ever seems to use it for DB work even if they use it for DC work. So I don't know about them. OK, sorry for the interuption......back to Yachts and sailing on the 412i river of gold.
Dennis Povloski Posted July 26, 2005 Posted July 26, 2005 Believe it or not, I do actually use Relius for DB...granted we use this exclusively for our small plans. Our office tends to shy away from 412(i), so I've never run one, but I can comment that in running the plans that I do have with insurance, the insurance input screens are not at all user friendly. It does appear to have some type of download capabilities, but I've never run a plan big enough to try to figure out how to do this. Also, if you have all of your information nicely laid out in a spreadsheet, there is no way to import the insurance info with a data entry routine, so the info must be manually keyed anyway...... Good luck in your search!
Guest Carol Writing Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 Our office uses Datair, which I think is a fantastic software system. My only criticism of Datair, (and you can comment on this if you'd like), is that it really does not put out Schedule B information for top-heavy 412(i) plans. Most 412(i) plans are top heavy, so this ought to be important to the purist. However, Datair's method of treating top-heavy 412(i) plans seems to be a foolproof way of granting the minimum top heavy accrual to non-key employees. It makes all the sense in the world to me, so I have not been to date generating Schedules B. Perhaps someday we'll be forced to . . . Good luck!
Guest ritchie Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 Sounds smooth and efficient. Blinky Fish, don't you use Datair also? You do it the same way?
Blinky the 3-eyed Fish Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 No Ritchie, I don't use Datair, but I do have a somewhat foolproof method. What I try to do is understand the concepts that apply to what I am doing before I do it. Carol, as was pointed out the last time you posted on top heavy 412(i) plans, what you typed makes no sense whatsoever. How can a software program grant top heavy benefits? You need to either have a formula that satisfies the top heavy and the premium is deposited into the insurance contract or you need to make the deposit into a side fund, which requires a Schedule B. What you cannot do is grant benefits on paper and call it a day. A good percentage of 412(i) plans are going to be audited. I fear that harm will befall both your firm and your clients. "What's in the big salad?" "Big lettuce, big carrots, tomatoes like volleyballs."
R. Butler Posted August 5, 2005 Author Posted August 5, 2005 What I try to do is understand the concepts that apply to what I am doing before I do it. If my boss let me wait until I understood the concepts we would only be handling non-integrated SEPs.
Guest ritchie Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 R Butler, good thing you don't work for NASA on the space shuttle! Hmmm, let me think about that one. Blinky, think creatively. Consider for example the option of declaring Key Employees to be members of a QSLOB and putting them in their own 412(i). Doesn't that avoid the need for a top heavy side fund?
WDIK Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 Carol, as was pointed out the last time you posted on top heavy 412(i) plans... Are Carol Writing and Carol the Writer the same person? ...but then again, What Do I Know?
Guest Carol Writing Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 Yes, Carol Writing and Carol the Writer are one and the same person. There was a glitch in BenefitsLinks posting of my name, and I had to change my "handle." While is may not be conceptually as clear as a given actuary might want, Datair does ask, on its Top Heave" input screens, whether Top Heavy minimum accrued benefits are to go to key employees. If you answer "NO," then you can get a benefit formula for the price the client is willing to pay, grant the TH to the non-keys and have everybody happy. I haven't seen it fail yet. (Believe me, if I do, I will figure out how to complete a Schedule B for this type of plan. It may not "make sense" but it surely does if you think creatively.)
AndyH Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 See Blinky! Do a little yoga and expand and expound. Then hit the turbo analyzer failsafe button.
Blinky the 3-eyed Fish Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 I am getting some magic beans. "What's in the big salad?" "Big lettuce, big carrots, tomatoes like volleyballs."
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