Document & 5500 software

[Santo Gold]

Has anyone heard of or used Fort William online document services? They offer prototype and volume submitter documents at what seem to be impossibly low prices. Their website doesn't indicate who is responsible for their product. Buyer Beware of course, but has anyone worked with them before?

[JanetM]

Never heard of them, dang right about impossibly low prices.

ftwilliam.com for anyone interested.

[JanetM]

This was on the website.

ftwilliam.com and/or its employees, officers and agents are not engaged in the practice of law and do not render any legal, accounting, financial or other professional advice. ftwilliam.com does not provide any advice and/or opinion as to whether any of the documents and or forms offered on the Site provide any specified legal or tax effect. All documents and or forms are prepared by ftwilliam.com at the direction of the person using the site.

[stephen]

I am almost certain they are a BenefitsLink advertiser.

[No Name]

I'm using them for 5500's and a few docs. Some nifty stuff... enter a company name and there's an option to upload prior 5500 info (I'm guessing some hook into DOL data). No prior usage of ftwilliam software necessary.

Docs are delivered via rtf format. As sent, they're rather ugly, but can be fonted up. Just don't change any words, or punctuation for that matter.

At $50 a doc, pretty cheap. If you'll be doing 50 - 60 restatements, there are cheaper options.

I've used Datair in a past life, and liked their stuff. Ftwilliam doesn't seem to have all the bells and whistles (maybe good, maybe not). I did note that when the required rollover nonsense passed, they had a new base document with IRS Notification letter within a few weeks.

Not an endorsement and I don't work for them.

[Santo Gold]

Janet M: Regarding your second post.....I would think however that if their documents have favorable IRS opinion letters, that the disclaimer is somewhat not applicable. If a prototype has the IRS blessing, and a sponsor uses that prototype, all is well, regardless of the legal CYA on their website. Would you agree?

[RTK]

Santo, plan document is akin to a contract that creates rights that can be enforced in federal courts by (among others) participants. From this perspective, IRS blessing does not necessarily mean everything is ok. IRS opinion letter merely addresses form of document under IRC tax qualification requirements.

[Santo Gold]

RTK: I think I meant to say that.

My concern centers on this: If the sponsor adopts an IRS approved prototype, the sponsor has assurance that the form of the document is OK. As long as the sponsor does not change the approved prototype in any way, adopts it timely, and complies with the language contained therein, the use of that document can be relied upon as a legitimate plan & trust (assuming trust language is contained in it) and the plan will enjoy the tax qualified advantages offered under 401(a) (Ongoing operation might jeaporize that, but I'm concerned right now just about the document). So, given that the preceding requirements are met, regardless of the legal disclaimer that Janet M mentioned, we would have still have a qualified plan document. Am I right?

Thanks to all.

[JanetM]

Santo, my point is do you want to use the product when they can't help you with technical questions? I think it would be worth a few more dollars to have legal advice from provider.

[could be me maybe not]

required rollover nonsense

Amen to that.

[No Name]

Thanks for the props, monkey-face. As far as service, ftwilliam has been very forthcoming with support.

Example: Their 5500 software was (don't ask me how) making up zip codes. I emailed them and it was fixed in about 1 day.

Question: I haven't heard any furour yet, but Datair insists that the 5500s can't be sent as PDFs to clients. ftwilliam generates their 5500s as PDF files, with the caveat that you turn off any "Fit to page", "Shrink to Fit", etc. options.

I print paper copies to be sent to clients, but the 15th is coming. Any experiences?

[RTK]

Santo, I think you are right that you would have a tax qualified plan under the Code. My only point is that plan documents create rights (to benefits) that can be enforced. IMHO, the benefit provisions should be the primary focus of a document. Many of the mass produced documents are written from the Code perspective, often using LRMs from IRS. I've used LRM language or like language in past disputes to argue for results that the plan sponsor contended were not intended.