elective deferrals

[abanky]

are elective deferrals included in calculating the abp in a straight new comparability ps? or in a cash balance plan/401(k) plan?

I'm getting mixed signals from what I read.

[AndyH]

In the Average Benefit Percentage Test? Yes, always.

[abanky]

Thank you Andy,

where can i find that in the code?

Andrew

[Tom Poje]

its in 1.410(b)-5(d)(3)(i) ..."All plans...."

1.410(b)-5(d)(5) ...."if all plans ....

1.410(b)-5(d)(6)(ii) ....and adding it to the allocation rate for the 401(k) plan...

[abanky]

what about where it says in section 1.410(b)-5(d)(2)? It says "only employer-provided contributions and benefits are taken into account in determining employee benefit percentages. Therefore, employee contributions (including both employee contributions allocated to separate accounts and employee contributions not allocated to separate accounts), and benefits derived from such contributions, are not taken into account in determining employee benefit percentages."

Aren't elective deferral employee contributions?

[Tom Poje]

not according to 1.401(m)-1(f)(6)

employee contributions .....any contribution...that is treated as after-tax employee contribution

1.401(k)-1(a)(2)(ii) adds

A designated Roth contribution is not treated as an after tax contribution...

[abanky]

thank you very very much.... what a wierd definition of employee contributions that is..