Unlicensed practice of law issue; web site of org of "legal document preparers"

[Dave Baker]

Should a plan document be prepared only by lawyers?

Those interested in the "unlicensed practice of law" issue, in states where bar associations seek to apply those rules to plan document preparation by non-lawyers, will want to look at this site (which I just came across) for support or in horror, depending on your position:

http://www.naldp.org/

[John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA]

How about where the document drafting peoples' boss is an attorney, but the attorney has no real significant document drafting knowledge or retirement plan drafting / design knowledge, and thus the attorney does not review any of the documents?

[Guest mjb]

Given that the State Bars of NC an FL have failed to prevent non lawyers from advising/preparing documents for clients on qualified plans I dont know what there is to discuss. Many states provide that representing clients before a federal govt agency such as the IRS is not considered to be the practice of law.

The real joke is that documents prepared by these firms rarely comply with the applicable state laws where the customer reside which results in testamentary distributions under wills being invalidated. A common failure in canned wills is the lack of an attestation clause which is signed by the witnesses to the will and the attorney who supervised the execution which eliminates the need for the witneesses to testify in person when the will is probated. If there is no attestation clause the witnesses have to be located and have to appear in person before the court at the exepnse of the decedent's estate.

[AndyH]

Great link Dave. Looked at first like a commercial for CSI Miami (but the pictures rotate).

Now, if these people could properly draft a DB QDRO then that would be a first and I'd be all for them!

[Peanut Butter Man]

They will not be able to offer a qualified plan, because they cannot sign Form 2848 as one of the 4 favorite food groups for the IRS as they are not attorneys, accountants, enrolled agents or enrolled actuaries. Form 2848 is required by the IRS when filing a lead specimen plan for approval as a prototype or volume submitter document.

They will also not be able to file any of their plans for determination letters, again because they cannot sign Form 2848. Determination letter applications for individually designed plans use Form 5300, which requires Form 2848 to be included in the submission package.

I like to think the marketplace weeds these document preparers out pretty quickly. I can't imagine using a plan document which has never been approved by the IRS, either as a prototype or volume submitter, or which has not received a determination letter in the past.

[Guest BXO]

So, this discussion is not about a TPA with no attorney on staff offering a pre-approved document to a client?

[david rigby]

They will not be able to offer a qualified plan, because they cannot sign Form 2848 as one of the 4 favorite food groups for the IRS as they are not attorneys, accountants, enrolled agents or enrolled actuaries.

Do we know that or just assume it?

[Guest mjb]

The 2848 form no longer has a category for "other". The categories are specific and are limited to employees and family members of the taxpayer.