QROPS Anyone

[Appleby]

One of my clients (a brokerage firm) has been receiving an influx of calls about Qualifying Recognized Overseas Pension Schemes (QROPS).

One website http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops-list.htm

I figure something must have occurred recently – some change in UK plan provisions etc that has prompted these calls.

Apparently, they are being told by their plan administrators that they can rollover amounts from their UK Pension plans to a retirement plan in the United Stated, if the plan is part of the QROPS program.

From what I was able to gather –after reading some of the material on the website- this may be limited to some type of superannuation scheme.

As we know, these plans do not satisfy the definition of an eligible retirement plan for rollover/transfer purposes.

Also, the term ‘Pension” usually means something different in other countries. For instance, in Jamaica, pension means a superannuation fund.

Jevd, I figure you may be getting these calls as well?.

Has anyone else come across this?

[david rigby]

You might consider reviewing the appropriate tax treaty.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/intern...d=96454,00.html

[jevd]

One of my clients (a brokerage firm) has been receiving an influx of calls about Qualifying Recognized Overseas Pension Schemes (QROPS).

One website http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops-list.htm

I figure something must have occurred recently – some change in UK plan provisions etc that has prompted these calls.

Apparently, they are being told by their plan administrators that they can rollover amounts from their UK Pension plans to a retirement plan in the United Stated, if the plan is part of the QROPS program.

From what I was able to gather –after reading some of the material on the website- this may be limited to some type of superannuation scheme.

As we know, these plans do not satisfy the definition of an eligible retirement plan for rollover/transfer purposes.

Also, the term ‘Pension” usually means something different in other countries. For instance, in Jamaica, pension means a superannuation fund.

Jevd, I figure you may be getting these calls as well?.

Has anyone else come across this?

Not in any numbers recently. We periodically get a call on this issue. I'll check and let you all know what happens. I just read the treaty currently listed on the IRS website and saw no reference to rollovers of non-US Retirement Plans.

[JanetM]

Our parent company is in the UK - have been hearing about these since 2006 relating to UK execs who move about the globe. UK resident who has pension from UK plan can transfer (rollover) the benefit if they retire or work in another country.

Seems some plans in Europe will allow you to transfer in even if you are not an employee or resident.

[Appleby]

Thanks all

Very helpful

[Guest mattearle]

This page has a bunch of useful information on QROPS pension transfers: QROPS information

[SheilaD]

Our parent company is in the UK - have been hearing about these since 2006 relating to UK execs who move about the globe. UK resident who has pension from UK plan can transfer (rollover) the benefit if they retire or work in another country.

Seems some plans in Europe will allow you to transfer in even if you are not an employee or resident.

Janet,

As it happens my husband (a resident alien here with UK citizinship) has a pension from prior service in the UK. Am I correct that he still cannot rollover that pension to a US plan or US IRA?

Thank you.

[JanetM]

Sheila, Not to an IRA. The current list on Inland Revenues site list the plan approved by UK pension regulator for transfer. But I told you have to be participant in the plan to do rollover.

click on link to see list

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops-list.htm

[Guest Lindsey]

Sheila, Not to an IRA. The current list on Inland Revenues site list the plan approved by UK pension regulator for transfer. But I told you have to be participant in the plan to do rollover.

click on link to see list

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops-list.htm

I have a client he is a US citizen who used to work in the UK and has a UK Pension Scheme. Is he able to roll his UK pension into a owner only defined benefit plan or owner only 401k)k) plan and keep his tax-deferred status of the assets? I have been told her can't roll it into a US IRA. Anyone have any contacts that may be able to help us get these assetss transferred to a US qualified plan?? help we have been working on this for a year and would like to resolve it for the client.

[GBurns]

Just call those US firms on the list and ask them.

[Guest crazybrit6]

Sheila, Not to an IRA. The current list on Inland Revenues site list the plan approved by UK pension regulator for transfer. But I told you have to be participant in the plan to do rollover.

click on link to see list

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops-list.htm

I have a client he is a US citizen who used to work in the UK and has a UK Pension Scheme. Is he able to roll his UK pension into a owner only defined benefit plan or owner only 401k)k) plan and keep his tax-deferred status of the assets? I have been told her can't roll it into a US IRA. Anyone have any contacts that may be able to help us get these assetss transferred to a US qualified plan?? help we have been working on this for a year and would like to resolve it for the client.

I am from the UK and have been trying to transfer my pension from Guardian Finanacial for the past 17years.....unsuccessfully......I was recently told it is because of the taxes and the receiving scheme has to have an HMRC reference number.......which no one over here seems to know what that is.....something to do with the taxes.........I have also read an article that if you have resided in another country for more than 5 years you should be able to withdraw the money tax free but again no luck there.........Fidelity is on the approved list from the UK and I have both 401K and pension through Fidelity here in America but yet they still cannot transfer the funds even though they are on their own list.........If anyone can help me find the secret loop in this nightmare please let me know.....email me at crazybrit6@yahoo.com.......

[GBurns]

Unfortunately I do not know the secret loop, but I will warn you not to believe what you have been told by someone at Fidelity. Too many people are too ready to give authoritative answers about things that they do not know. It seems that 90% of people are really wrong 90% of the time, even about their own jobs (I read that somewhere long ago and have no idea who). As a result, you should take what the said with a grain of salt and try again. Bear in mind that this is not the everyday issue that anyone deals with.

Find someone at Fidelity who can direct you to the source of the list or the source of any literature that relates to the issue. The author of that literature wuld know why the reference is there. Another possible place is their Compliance Dept. All literature has to be approved as being compliant with regulatory requirements.

[Guest crazybrit6]

Unfortunately I do not know the secret loop, but I will warn you not to believe what you have been told by someone at Fidelity. Too many people are too ready to give authoritative answers about things that they do not know. It seems that 90% of people are really wrong 90% of the time, even about their own jobs (I read that somewhere long ago and have no idea who). As a result, you should take what the said with a grain of salt and try again. Bear in mind that this is not the everyday issue that anyone deals with.

Find someone at Fidelity who can direct you to the source of the list or the source of any literature that relates to the issue. The author of that literature wuld know why the reference is there. Another possible place is their Compliance Dept. All literature has to be approved as being compliant with regulatory requirements.

Thank you for the advice.......I have never given up and probably won't....what's so funny is everytime I call Guardian, they all know me before I even tell them who I am.......it's that women from America.....LOL I just find it crazy that with America and England being the two main allies in the war yet we can't transfer money from one country to another.....how ancient is that?

[GBurns]

That suggests to me that you have been calling a local branch office. You should be only calling the Head Office and the Executive Office.

[Appleby]

Sheila, Not to an IRA. The current list on Inland Revenues site list the plan approved by UK pension regulator for transfer. But I told you have to be participant in the plan to do rollover.

click on link to see list

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops-list.htm

I have a client he is a US citizen who used to work in the UK and has a UK Pension Scheme. Is he able to roll his UK pension into a owner only defined benefit plan or owner only 401k)k) plan and keep his tax-deferred status of the assets? I have been told her can't roll it into a US IRA. Anyone have any contacts that may be able to help us get these assetss transferred to a US qualified plan?? help we have been working on this for a year and would like to resolve it for the client.

I am from the UK and have been trying to transfer my pension from Guardian Finanacial for the past 17years.....unsuccessfully......I was recently told it is because of the taxes and the receiving scheme has to have an HMRC reference number.......which no one over here seems to know what that is.....something to do with the taxes.........I have also read an article that if you have resided in another country for more than 5 years you should be able to withdraw the money tax free but again no luck there.........Fidelity is on the approved list from the UK and I have both 401K and pension through Fidelity here in America but yet they still cannot transfer the funds even though they are on their own list.........If anyone can help me find the secret loop in this nightmare please let me know.....email me at crazybrit6@yahoo.com.......

Unfortunately, that list is not worth the time it was taken to put together. Apparently someone just pulled firm names out of the air and added them to the list. I have dealt with firms whose names are on the list, and no one at any level have any idea of how the firm’s name got on the list. No one we spoke with at HMRC could tell us who gave the approval to have the firms name added to the list. Consider that a SEP IRA is also on the list. Not a firm, but someone’s SEP IRA .

Assets from a foreign retirement account cannot be rolled over to a US retirement account. See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/am2008009.pdf

[SheilaD]

Thank you for the advice.......I have never given up and probably won't....what's so funny is everytime I call Guardian, they all know me before I even tell them who I am.......it's that women from America.....LOL I just find it crazy that with America and England being the two main allies in the war yet we can't transfer money from one country to another.....how ancient is that?

I've been dealing with Mercer through the years about my husbands British pension. Their final word seems to be -- wait until he hits retirement age, disability or (hopefully not ) death. At that time we can collect his pension and it will be taxed "over there".

[GBurns]

I would immediately check and make sure that it will be taxed "over there".

I do not know that a US Resident (Permanent or citizen) can completely, if any at all, avoid taxation on the federal or state level.

It would be better to know ahead of time. And don't depend on Mercer for your tax advice.

[Guest crazybrit6]

Thank you for the advice.......I have never given up and probably won't....what's so funny is everytime I call Guardian, they all know me before I even tell them who I am.......it's that women from America.....LOL I just find it crazy that with America and England being the two main allies in the war yet we can't transfer money from one country to another.....how ancient is that?

I've been dealing with Mercer through the years about my husbands British pension. Their final word seems to be -- wait until he hits retirement age, disability or (hopefully not ) death. At that time we can collect his pension and it will be taxed "over there".

I am being told the same thing......can we withdraw one lump sum at retirement age or do we have to get silly little monthly checks........

[SheilaD]

Thank you for the advice.......I have never given up and probably won't....what's so funny is everytime I call Guardian, they all know me before I even tell them who I am.......it's that women from America.....LOL I just find it crazy that with America and England being the two main allies in the war yet we can't transfer money from one country to another.....how ancient is that?

I've been dealing with Mercer through the years about my husbands British pension. Their final word seems to be -- wait until he hits retirement age, disability or (hopefully not ) death. At that time we can collect his pension and it will be taxed "over there".

I am being told the same thing......can we withdraw one lump sum at retirement age or do we have to get silly little monthly checks........

What I've been told is that it depends on the particular plan -- in my case the plan is with delmonte foods and they do not currently offer a lump sum -- but -- by the time we get there --- who knows.

[GBurns]

Del Monte Foods? British pension ?

I did not think that there was that much of a British presence that I would ever come across a participant. Did he actually work in the UK or was it at a subsidiary/branch office located outside the UK but controlled by the UK office ?

Are you sure that this is really a British pension plan and not a pension plan of the country where the subsidiary/branch office is located ?

[SheilaD]

Del Monte Foods? British pension ?

I did not think that there was that much of a British presence that I would ever come across a participant. Did he actually work in the UK or was it at a subsidiary/branch office located outside the UK but controlled by the UK office ?

Are you sure that this is really a British pension plan and not a pension plan of the country where the subsidiary/branch office is located ?

I had to go visiting on the web to find out where you were coming from. Del Monte foods is a USA corporation. Their website proclaims their independence from the International firm. Del Monte Fresh Produce International is a European company. Some of their history is shared.

If you are curious here is del monte foods: http://www.delmonte.com/company/default.as...e=oc_ourhistory

Here is del monte international http://www.freshdelmonte.com/ourcompany.aspx

[GBurns]

That raises questions.

Which Del Monte did he work for ?

Did he work at the HQ or in a subsidiary ?

If subsidiary, what country was it located in ?

Have you verified the country of domicile of this pension plan?

I have seen quite a few people who were either in thw wrong plan or who were in a plan diffeent from the one that they said that they were in. This is a fairly popular problem with agricultural multi-national firms such as Del Monte, United Fruit, Standard Fruit, Tate & Lyle etc.

For example, United Fruit in Jamaica was originally a branch office of the UK entity. The Uk entity got taken over by the US entity. For a while the Jamaica office "oversaw" Costa Rica and the remnants of a Panama operation. Some employees were under a UK plan, some fell under a Jamaican plan and some from Jamaica and Panama fell under the plan from the US office in Boston. When major operations were closed down in Jamaica around 1970, some participants were transferred into another Jamaica plan and some, mostly senior administrative were transferred into a US plan. To confuse pensioners further, monthly pension disbursements were originated in the US then deposited to a local trustee for subsequent disbursement.

Asking any pensioner what plan they belonged to got the same answer, United Fruit. Their opinion as to country of domicile of the pension plan depended on length of employment. The older ones thought UK (after all Jamaica is a British Commonwealth country) and the newer or more exposed thought US because that is where the internal auditors came from and where daily reports etc were sent.

So over many years I have learned that most people will give a wrong answer about many things even those which are of primary importance to them.

I do not know if any of this will mean much, but I hope that it prompts you to make sure that you have correct details. Even if it is only to make sure you have the right Del Monte and country. It might make a difference.

[Guest HORIZON01]

I am very familiar with the HMRC list of approved schemes and a few U.S. based schemes have been on it since A-Day in 2006. I can tell you with absolute certainty that no U.S. based QROPS can accept a transfer from a U.K. pension scheme. The reason is very simple: U.S. based QROPS are regulated by IRS rules and can only receive "qualified" funds in. This means that they can only accept funds "rollovers" from U.S. 401k, IRA or other U.S. "qualified" schemes.

The QROPS we represent are based in E.U. countries although the member can live in the U.S. or anywhere. Transfers typically take 4-6 weeks from start to finish. None are governed by or report to the IRS.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

[Guest taxbones]

Any more updates on QROPS and whether a US resident can set one up in a tax efficient manner? I am seeing conflicting "pitches" on the web by financial advisors and am concerned about whether these companies have vetted the product? Any information would be much appreciated.

[Guest expatworld]

Any more updates on QROPS and whether a US resident can set one up in a tax efficient manner? I am seeing conflicting "pitches" on the web by financial advisors and am concerned about whether these companies have vetted the product? Any information would be much appreciated.

Until recently Qrops has not been available for US residents due to the reporting requirements of the IRS. However a new IRS compliant Qrops trust was formed, wich now enables US residents to transfer their UK pensions into, recognised by the IRS. A lot of the posts on here are up to several years old, that time Qrops was not possible for US residents :-) Check out this link: Qrops USA