Urgent help needed re ERISA and Union problem

[Guest bandleader]

I am a union musician and recently took a job conducting a musical in China, but not under the jurisdiction of my union. I was able, though, to get the employer to pay my health/welfare and pension benefits. Now that I am in China and working the job, the employer has been making the benefit payments, but my union is refusing to accept them.

At first they said it was because the job was "out of their jurisdiction," meaning in China instead of the US (even though I'm being paid by an US employer and paying US taxes. Now they're saying that according to ERISA rules they can't accept MY benefit payments unless all of the other US musicians are allowed to make the same payments to their benefits (even though said musicians did not have this agreement with the employer).

I've done a little research on ERISA, but so far have found nothing about this, and am now wondering if the Union is trying to confuse the situation by bringing up ERISA.

Does anyone know anything about this? Can anyone help me out?

The only reason I took this job was to get my benefits paid. If I don't have my health & welfare paid by October, my current health insurance will expire. I'm a diabetic and that's going to be a big problem.

Thanks!

[leevena]

Could you help me understand what you meant by "I am a union musician and recently took a job conducting a musical in China, but not under the jurisdiction of my union." If you took the job outside of the union, why would you expect the union to offer coverage through their plan?

[Mike Preston]

You might want to check with whoever provides information regarding the union health plan to see whether your accepting of this work puts you in a position of being eligible for continuation benefits of some kind.

I'm not sure whether COBRA would apply in your case, but if it does, you can secure temporary coverage (of, I think, about 18 months - maybe longer) by paying directly for the expense involved. There may be an uptick of sorts required to allow for the increased administrative costs, but it sounds like it would be well worth it in your case.

It is possible the COBRA doesn't apply in the case of union provided benefits. If that is the case, then I'm afraid this course of action will not be of any assistance to you. But if it does, and there is a way to invoke its provisions, you should at least be able to continue your health care.

[Guest bandleader]

Could you help me understand what you meant by "I am a union musician and recently took a job conducting a musical in China, but not under the jurisdiction of my union." If you took the job outside of the union, why would you expect the union to offer coverage through their plan?

Because I contacted my union before taking the job and asked their advice on whether to do so or not. I was told by two different officials that I could take the job as long as I filled out a "T-2" contract (a travelling contract) that the union provided to me. I made it very clear that I did not want to take this job unless the union would accept the employers payments into my health and welfare and I was to pay my own pension. Again, I was told there would be no problem with this. Once I got to China, they backed down and said they couldn't accept these payments. Now I'm stuck in China in a job where I'm getting no health benefits and will probably lose my benefits for next year because I won't have enough paid into the fund. It's too late for me to quit this job and return home to find enough Union work to cover the health and welfare.

They are NOW citing that because of the Taft-Hartley Law Section 302 (a), and Clause (5) (b), they cannot accept the employer payments. I looked up the Taft-Hartley text online and it's such legalize that I can't understand it. It SEEMS to me that it has to do with some kind of "payments" as opposed to contributions to my health and pension. Maybe that's semantics, I don't know.

I'm just furious that the union gave me the go ahead, told me which form to have my employer fill out and then reneged on it all.

I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation.

[Guest bandleader]

You might want to check with whoever provides information regarding the union health plan to see whether your accepting of this work puts you in a position of being eligible for continuation benefits of some kind.

I'm not sure whether COBRA would apply in your case, but if it does, you can secure temporary coverage (of, I think, about 18 months - maybe longer) by paying directly for the expense involved. There may be an uptick of sorts required to allow for the increased administrative costs, but it sounds like it would be well worth it in your case.

It is possible the COBRA doesn't apply in the case of union provided benefits. If that is the case, then I'm afraid this course of action will not be of any assistance to you. But if it does, and there is a way to invoke its provisions, you should at least be able to continue your health care.

Yes, I believe COBRA is available. I looked it up and the cost is astronomical. The minimum cost to my partner and I would be double what we pay now for a generic plan and up to triple for the exact plan we have now. As an intermittently working musician, I simply can't afford that.

[leevena]

Could you help me understand what you meant by "I am a union musician and recently took a job conducting a musical in China, but not under the jurisdiction of my union." If you took the job outside of the union, why would you expect the union to offer coverage through their plan?

Because I contacted my union before taking the job and asked their advice on whether to do so or not. I was told by two different officials that I could take the job as long as I filled out a "T-2" contract (a travelling contract) that the union provided to me. I made it very clear that I did not want to take this job unless the union would accept the employers payments into my health and welfare and I was to pay my own pension. Again, I was told there would be no problem with this. Once I got to China, they backed down and said they couldn't accept these payments. Now I'm stuck in China in a job where I'm getting no health benefits and will probably lose my benefits for next year because I won't have enough paid into the fund. It's too late for me to quit this job and return home to find enough Union work to cover the health and welfare.

They are NOW citing that because of the Taft-Hartley Law Section 302 (a), and Clause (5) (b), they cannot accept the employer payments. I looked up the Taft-Hartley text online and it's such legalize that I can't understand it. It SEEMS to me that it has to do with some kind of "payments" as opposed to contributions to my health and pension. Maybe that's semantics, I don't know.

I'm just furious that the union gave me the go ahead, told me which form to have my employer fill out and then reneged on it all.

I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation.

With all due respect, You post a question under the heading "Urgent Help Needed" a month ago. Two people reply, and now, thirty days later you reply. How urgent could it have been?

Additionally, you state that "I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation." How about your accountability? Did you not do your research ahead of time? Did you not ask your union for replies in writing? You further state that it's too late to quit now...why? Just quit and come home.

Your comment about cobra cost being astronomical...get real. COBRA costs are the true cost, with a few percentages added for administration.

I am sorry, but it sounds like you did not do your homework, nor the work needed to make sure you had the coverage needed, and you now want to blame someone else.

[Guest bandleader]

Could you help me understand what you meant by "I am a union musician and recently took a job conducting a musical in China, but not under the jurisdiction of my union." If you took the job outside of the union, why would you expect the union to offer coverage through their plan?

Because I contacted my union before taking the job and asked their advice on whether to do so or not. I was told by two different officials that I could take the job as long as I filled out a "T-2" contract (a travelling contract) that the union provided to me. I made it very clear that I did not want to take this job unless the union would accept the employers payments into my health and welfare and I was to pay my own pension. Again, I was told there would be no problem with this. Once I got to China, they backed down and said they couldn't accept these payments. Now I'm stuck in China in a job where I'm getting no health benefits and will probably lose my benefits for next year because I won't have enough paid into the fund. It's too late for me to quit this job and return home to find enough Union work to cover the health and welfare.

They are NOW citing that because of the Taft-Hartley Law Section 302 (a), and Clause (5) (b), they cannot accept the employer payments. I looked up the Taft-Hartley text online and it's such legalize that I can't understand it. It SEEMS to me that it has to do with some kind of "payments" as opposed to contributions to my health and pension. Maybe that's semantics, I don't know.

I'm just furious that the union gave me the go ahead, told me which form to have my employer fill out and then reneged on it all.

I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation.

With all due respect, You post a question under the heading "Urgent Help Needed" a month ago. Two people reply, and now, thirty days later you reply. How urgent could it have been?

Additionally, you state that "I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation." How about your accountability? Did you not do your research ahead of time? Did you not ask your union for replies in writing? You further state that it's too late to quit now...why? Just quit and come home.

Your comment about cobra cost being astronomical...get real. COBRA costs are the true cost, with a few percentages added for administration.

I am sorry, but it sounds like you did not do your homework, nor the work needed to make sure you had the coverage needed, and you now want to blame someone else.

You have got to be kidding me. You're reprimanding me now because while I was working my tail off to solve this I didn't post here? If you don't have any helpful answers, then don't answer.

But to address your silly accusations:

It's very urgent and remains so. Just because I wasn't here doesn't mean I wasn't working on it. I posted questions in many places and it took me a while, while working in China, to try and solve this, I've never stopped.

Yes, as I already stated, I DID do my research ahead of time by contacting my union. I contacted two different officials in two different offices (New York and LA) and was told by both that there would be no problems and which contract to use. Getting advice from two different officials seemed at the time enough to cement the approval from the union. So I think I was fully accountable and did what I was supposed to do with my union to make sure I was doing it right. THEY dropped the ball and when they realized that they had given me erroneous information, they stopped talking all together.

It's too late to quit because as a conductor/musician there's only so many jobs to go around. You can't just quit one, fly home and jump into another one. It doesn't work that way. I have to have health and welfare credits built up by Oct 1. It would have been impossible to find a start a job that quickly.

Get REAL? Are you for real? the costs of cobra in comparison to what we pay now for my insurance are astronomical...almost 4 times what I pay now.

I'm sorry for you, because one, you didn't read clearly what I was saying and instead got on your high horse of blame. Two I did what I was supposed to do. I contacted my union for permission which they gave me. I came here for help, not abuse from you.

[leevena]

Could you help me understand what you meant by "I am a union musician and recently took a job conducting a musical in China, but not under the jurisdiction of my union." If you took the job outside of the union, why would you expect the union to offer coverage through their plan?

Because I contacted my union before taking the job and asked their advice on whether to do so or not. I was told by two different officials that I could take the job as long as I filled out a "T-2" contract (a travelling contract) that the union provided to me. I made it very clear that I did not want to take this job unless the union would accept the employers payments into my health and welfare and I was to pay my own pension. Again, I was told there would be no problem with this. Once I got to China, they backed down and said they couldn't accept these payments. Now I'm stuck in China in a job where I'm getting no health benefits and will probably lose my benefits for next year because I won't have enough paid into the fund. It's too late for me to quit this job and return home to find enough Union work to cover the health and welfare.

They are NOW citing that because of the Taft-Hartley Law Section 302 (a), and Clause (5) (b), they cannot accept the employer payments. I looked up the Taft-Hartley text online and it's such legalize that I can't understand it. It SEEMS to me that it has to do with some kind of "payments" as opposed to contributions to my health and pension. Maybe that's semantics, I don't know.

I'm just furious that the union gave me the go ahead, told me which form to have my employer fill out and then reneged on it all.

I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation.

With all due respect, You post a question under the heading "Urgent Help Needed" a month ago. Two people reply, and now, thirty days later you reply. How urgent could it have been?

Additionally, you state that "I think they should be accountable for the advice they gave me in this situation." How about your accountability? Did you not do your research ahead of time? Did you not ask your union for replies in writing? You further state that it's too late to quit now...why? Just quit and come home.

Your comment about cobra cost being astronomical...get real. COBRA costs are the true cost, with a few percentages added for administration.

I am sorry, but it sounds like you did not do your homework, nor the work needed to make sure you had the coverage needed, and you now want to blame someone else.

You have got to be kidding me. You're reprimanding me now because while I was working my tail off to solve this I didn't post here? If you don't have any helpful answers, then don't answer.

But to address your silly accusations:

It's very urgent and remains so. Just because I wasn't here doesn't mean I wasn't working on it. I posted questions in many places and it took me a while, while working in China, to try and solve this, I've never stopped.

Yes, as I already stated, I DID do my research ahead of time by contacting my union. I contacted two different officials in two different offices (New York and LA) and was told by both that there would be no problems and which contract to use. Getting advice from two different officials seemed at the time enough to cement the approval from the union. So I think I was fully accountable and did what I was supposed to do with my union to make sure I was doing it right. THEY dropped the ball and when they realized that they had given me erroneous information, they stopped talking all together.

It's too late to quit because as a conductor/musician there's only so many jobs to go around. You can't just quit one, fly home and jump into another one. It doesn't work that way. I have to have health and welfare credits built up by Oct 1. It would have been impossible to find a start a job that quickly.

Get REAL? Are you for real? the costs of cobra in comparison to what we pay now for my insurance are astronomical...almost 4 times what I pay now.

I'm sorry for you, because one, you didn't read clearly what I was saying and instead got on your high horse of blame. Two I did what I was supposed to do. I contacted my union for permission which they gave me. I came here for help, not abuse from you.

Sorry, I admit I may have come across a little harsh, but you are clearly trying to blame someone else for your errors, lack of understanding and lack of responsibility. I am sick and tired of hearing this type of sad story.

1. You post an "urgent request" and then come back 30 days later, which does not sound urgent to me. 2. You relied on responses from two different people, which is fine, but you don't get anything in writing on something this important. Sure they dropped they ball, but so did you by not getting it in writing. Ultimately it is your responsibility, not theirs. 3. As for the cobra costs, the cobra cost is only a few %'s higher than the actual cost. According to your reply you have been paying 1/4 of the true cost of the health insurance. If this is true, then congratulations, someone else has been paying the other 3/4 for you.

[Mike Preston]

Sorry I missed your response. This is a kind of busy time of year and time is short for everybody. You appear to have 3 courses of action:

1) Hire a lawyer to write a letter to your union saying that you relied on the advice of your representatives and try to make them live up to what they promised you. You might be able to find out some information about whether the union can do what they promised by calling the carrier directly.

2) Go to your employer in China and tell them that they need to pay for the benefits that they promised to pay for. The fact that the cost is higher than what you or they originally thought may not be relevant. If they agreed to pay, then they may be required to pay.

3) Recognize that the cost for continuing your health coverage is well beyond what you thought it would be, but that you have no choice but to pay for it.

I left out choice 4, which is allow your coverage to lapse. I don't think that is wise.

Maybe somebody else can come up with a better idea.

Good luck.

mike