Final 5500 Due Before Forms Issued

[Andy the Actuary]

A calendar year defined benefit Plan which terminated February 1, 2008 is closed out on April 30, 2008. Final 5500 is due November 30, 2008 and presumably the date could be extended to February 15, 2009. In the past, we simply would have used 2007 forms to file the final 2008 5500. However, since the Plan was terminated after the January 1 actuarial valuation date, a 2008 Schedule B will need to be completed and it will look nothing remotely like a 2007 Schedule B. It is quite likely the 2009 Schedule B will not be available even by the extended final 5500 extended due date.

Has anyone heard of any guidance in how the final 5500 may be completed in this particular situation?

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

Look at the 2007 Form 5500 instructions. It states that there is an automatic extension until 90 days after the 2008 forms are available.

[Andy the Actuary]

Thank you. But presumably the the 90 days is measured from the date the IRS releases the forms and not 90 days from the date Relius, Corbel, etc., modifies their forms preparation system?

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

I have to think the forms will be available from those companies within the appropriate 90 day time-frame.

[SoCalActuary]

Thank you. But presumably the the 90 days is measured from the date the IRS releases the forms and not 90 days from the date Relius, Corbel, etc., modifies their forms preparation system?

But you should not have to e-file those. You would be able to print a set from the IRS web site, and then hand-write or type in the values. I actually hate this suggestion I am making, so don't shoot me. But on the other hand, the IRS will usually accept a reasonable explanation if the form is late for the reasons you just described.

[Andy the Actuary]

hand-write or type in the values.

I left my Woodstock at college after an all-nighter and 2 six packs of Pabst. Since I had the opertation to become surgically attached to my desktop, I can no longer hand-write. To your point, however, I've experienced great success with my desktop tete-a-tete-ing with the IRS BRAINIAC mainframe.

The main issue is that IRS tracking systems do not necessarily conform with 5500 instructions. Ergo, it's preferable to file on time rather than expend the effort to demonstrate that you are operating under a papal dispensation.

[SoCalActuary]

I left my Woodstock at college after an all-nighter and 2 six packs of Pabst. Since I had the opertation to become surgically attached to my desktop, I can no longer hand-write. To your point, however, I've experienced great success with my desktop tete-a-tete-ing with the IRS BRAINIAC mainframe.

The main issue is that IRS tracking systems do not necessarily conform with 5500 instructions. Ergo, it's preferable to file on time rather than expend the effort to demonstrate that you are operating under a papal dispensation.

Andy, you display a certain generational bias. BRAINIAC, wow! Is anyone out there under 40 aware of that reference?

Is anyone out there under 40?

Sorry for the loss of your handwriting skills on IRS forms. Maybe you can get your secretary/assistant to write them for you.

[Andy the Actuary]

Maybe you can get your secretary/assistant to write them for you.

I am my own secretary/assistant and as such have developed secretarial spread (sheets). My wife avoids all gerunds so her assisting, writing, and typing are out of the question.

BRANIAC used Hollerith cards to read in information. Each 80-column card had to be keypunched. So, a box of 2,000 cards contained so to speak 160,000 bytes. My 1 terabyte harddisk then is equivalent to 6.25 million boxes of cards. What this all means is that my basic clerical skills have atrophied. However, I am still well under 40 (dog years).