457 combined with New Comparability plan

[dmb]

Are contributions to a 457 plan required to be included in the average benefits testing of a 401a New Comparability plan of the same employer?? And along the same lines are there separate 415 limits or does the $46,000 limit apply to the combined plans??

[J Simmons]

The closest authority on this question that I've been able to find is a mere implication drawn from IRC § 415©(2), flush language, and Treas Reg § 1.415©-1(b)(3)(i).

For purposes of 'employee contributions' that are counted towards the 415c limit, excluded by this statute and reg are rollover contributions "(as described in sections 401(a)(31), 402©(1), 403(a)(4), 403(b)(8), 408(d)(3), and 457(e)(16))". If 457 benefit accruals were excluded altogether, there would be no need to have specified in the regs that rollover contributions to a 457b plan need to be excluded.

[Guest mjb]

Are contributions to a 457 plan required to be included in the average benefits testing of a 401a New Comparability plan of the same employer?? And along the same lines are there separate 415 limits or does the $46,000 limit apply to the combined plans??

457 plan are not included in testing under 401(a) plans because 457 plans are not subject to non discrimination requirements.

Neither reg. 1.457-4© or the catch up regs in IRC 414(v) require aggregation of a 457 plan with non 457 plans (all 457 plans must be aggregted). Finally I thought that the definition of a defined contribution plan under 1.415-1© excluded 457 plans. 457 plans are excluded from the 402(g) limits.

The reference to rollovers not being included in the 415 limits applies to govt 457b plans which can be rolled over to any qualified DC plan or 403b plan. NP 457 plans cannot be rolled over.

The only aggregation required under a 457 plan is that a participant in a government 457(b) who is eligible for a catchup under 457(b) and is also eligible for a catch up under 414v must elect the larger of the two catch up amounts.

[J Simmons]

Thanks for that insight, mjb.

[zimbo]

What about 403b salary deferrals. Would they count in the average benefit test? Would it matter whether the 403b is an ERISA or non-ERISA plan?

[Guest amycavanaugh]

What about 403b salary deferrals. Would they count in the average benefit test? Would it matter whether the 403b is an ERISA or non-ERISA plan?

they are not in the average benefits test regardless of ERISA or non-ERISA. There is a wacky 415 rule that applies which results in many instances where the participant has two separate 415 limitations. Look at 415(h).