Actuary - offshore, bpo

[Guest bill555]

Is anyone using or know of an actuary offshore, or bpo providing actuarial services? We are using an actuary in India right now but she is unable to handle all of our DB and CB plans so we need to find another one.

If you would like to email me directly with the info instead of posting it here, you can send it to:

billybong@gmx.com

Thanks for any info you can provide.

[A Shot in the Dark]

Is this post a joke?

[Guest bill555]

Is this post a joke?

NO, it is not a joke. It is a serious inquiry.

Perhaps if you were better informed and not so In the Dark, you would not be completely oblivious to the presence of bpo firms (and individual actuaries) that provide actuarial services to US firms.

[JAY21]

Bill, Bill,....a big 2 posts on benefitslink and you're already talking trash. Not a good way to wins friends and receive good responses in my view.

[Guest bill555]

Bill, Bill,....a big 2 posts on benefitslink and you're already talking trash. Not a good way to wins friends and receive good responses in my view.

It would be greatly appreciated if the replies posted are relevant to my inquiry.

[K2retire]

I'm curious why they need to be off shore. I would think that few non-US residents would have completed the necessary steps to qualify as an enrolled actuary in the US.

[Guest bill555]

I'm curious why they need to be off shore. I would think that few non-US residents would have completed the necessary steps to qualify as an enrolled actuary in the US.

Cost. The India actuary we are using charges 1/5 of the US actuary.

[K2retire]

Do they have the same credentials?

[Guest mjb]

I'm curious why they need to be off shore. I would think that few non-US residents would have completed the necessary steps to qualify as an enrolled actuary in the US.

Cost. The India actuary we are using charges 1/5 of the US actuary.

Can you sue the actuary in a US court for malpractice? It seems to me that the client has little recourse if the actuary makes a mistake.

[GBurns]

I cannot imagine that the $$ difference offsets the loss of certification, audit and other representation, and errors & omission recovery etc etc.

Paying 1/5th means nothing, it should be the $ cost and opportunity costs that are considered.

[mwyatt]

Just curious, as a search of the SOA directory looking for actuaries w/ EA designation located in India served up exactly 0 results.

Actuarial Directory

[david rigby]

Just curious, as a search of the SOA directory looking for actuaries w/ EA designation located in India served up exactly 0 results.

Could something else be going on: a US based EA, subcontracting the "number crunching"?

[Guest mjb]

Just curious, as a search of the SOA directory looking for actuaries w/ EA designation located in India served up exactly 0 results.

Could something else be going on: a US based EA, subcontracting the "number crunching"?

Since accountants have been outsourcing preparation of tax returns and audits to foreign countries for years, why cant actuaries outsource 5500s? Question is do the clients know who is actually doing the work?

[flosfur]

Just curious, as a search of the SOA directory looking for actuaries w/ EA designation located in India served up exactly 0 results.

Actuarial Directory

I recently received an emailer from a local actuary (who happens to be from India) who has setup an outfit in India.

I thought it was bad enough when an actuary just reviewd & certified the Sch Bs where a TPA had performed the valuation. I wonder what is in store with outsourced cases!

I have inherited some beauties over the years. One year the assumptions are 8%, next year 5%, 6.5% the next year! I have just taken over a case where interest assumption went from 8% to 4% for one year to the next?

No one is checking for underfunding or for excess assets! There is no actuarial consulting! Some TPAs think one doesn't need actuarial knowledge to perform the Valuation. All that is needed is a DB valuation software which will take care of everything. And they turn to an actuary only for his signature!

[flosfur]

Is anyone using or know of an actuary offshore, or bpo providing actuarial services? ...............

...........

What does pbo stand for, as it is used here?

I googled for pbo and found these terms.

Acronym Definition

PbO Lead Oxide

PBO Packed By Owner (shipping label)

PBO Paraburdoo, Western Australia, Australia - Paraburdoo (Airport Code)

PBO Penicillin in Beeswax

PBO Pension Buyout Obligation

PBO Performance Based Organization

PBO Personal Banking Officer

PBO Placebo

PBO Plan and Budget Organization (Iran)

PBO Plan, Build and Operate

PBO Plate Boundary Observatory

PBO Pocket Box Office (mobile games by Airborne Entertainment, Inc.)

PBO Polarized Born-Oppenheimer

PBO Poly-Paraphenylene-2 6-Benzobisoxazole (Zylon)

PBO Polybenzoxazole

PBO Polymorphic Buffer Overflow (security attack)

PBO Portland Baroque Orchestra (Oregon)

PBO Power Back Off

PBO Practical Boat Owner

PBO Pre-Birth Order (legal adoption order)

PBO Prescribed Brand Only

PBO Presiding Bishop's Office (LDS church)

PBO Private Banking Online

PBO Process Before Output

PBO Profit Before Overhead

PBO Program & Budget Office

PBO Projected Benefit Obligation (pension plan accounting)

PBO Property Book Officer

PBO Publiekrechtelijke Bedrijfsorganisatie

PBO Pixel Buffer Object

PBO Playback Orchestre

PBO Profiler Batch Output

PBO Profiler Binary Output

[GBurns]

It is bpo not pbo.

bpo = business process outsourcing/offshoring

[Ron Snyder]

The original post said "BPO", not "PBO". Don't know what either of them means.

We provide third-party actuarial services for a TPA firm that pays us to run the valuation, print out reports and prepare and sign the Schedule B. For this we receive 50% of the TPA's fee.

All Enrolled Actuaries are subject to the JBEA rules and Circular 230, even those in India, to the extent that they are providing ERISA-covered retirement services.

It would be foolish to outsource services to someone who did not have E&O, especially because it is likely required in order for your own E&O to cover you with respect to the services provided to the client. In other words they have to be covered under your policy if they can't provide satisfactory coverage.

[Guest bill555]

Do they have the same credentials?

The one we use is an FSA.

[Guest bill555]

The original post said "BPO", not "PBO". Don't know what either of them means.

We provide third-party actuarial services for a TPA firm that pays us to run the valuation, print out reports and prepare and sign the Schedule B. For this we receive 50% of the TPA's fee.

All Enrolled Actuaries are subject to the JBEA rules and Circular 230, even those in India, to the extent that they are providing ERISA-covered retirement services.

It would be foolish to outsource services to someone who did not have E&O, especially because it is likely required in order for your own E&O to cover you with respect to the services provided to the client. In other words they have to be covered under your policy if they can't provide satisfactory coverage.

Most BPO's operate with a marketing division in the country they are promoting their services. They are US companies, usually Corps or LLC's, properly licensed and insured. They usually have E&O. Most understand the concerns of those that might be considering outsourcing and endeavor to address these concerns.

Obviously, when outsourcing, one would do their due diligence. It's shouldn't be any different from what you would do or require when using a any vendor/provider located in the US.

ASPPA recently had an article about outsourcing, NIPA's website has something on Congruent.

[Dougsbpc]

IMHO there is nothing that can replace being the salesperson AND the consultant. This is where your clients are getting 5 times the value in most cases. It is knowing the vast amount of information required, being creative and being able to communicate that make all the difference.

[AndyH]

'ASPPA recently had an article about outsourcing, NIPA's website has something on Congruent."

Yeah, but that was DC work, not anything certified by an actuary.