Frozen DB - TH Benefits stop?

[ombskid]

A DB plan is frozen with notices to participants. Do top heavy minimum acruals stop?

[Andy the Actuary]

A DB plan is frozen with notices to participants. Do top heavy minimum acruals stop?

Are you saying was benefits accruals ceased because the AFTAP fell below 60% or the Plan was amended to freeze benefits? If the Plan was amended, then TH minimum accruals definitely stop. On the other hand, if the AFTAP fell below 60%, then there is nothing in the proposed regs to say TH benefits continue to accrue. In such case, once the AFTAP surpassed 60%, the TH accruals (or some of them) can be accrued [TH services continues to accrued while the AFTAP < 60%].

[ombskid]

Plan was amended to freeze benefits.

Do I remember a time when TH benefits continued to accrue even when a TH plan was frozen by amendment?

Thanks

[WDIK]

Do I remember a time when TH benefits continued to accrue even when a TH plan was frozen by amendment?

There was such a time.

[Andy the Actuary]

Plan was amended to freeze benefits.

Do I remember a time when TH benefits continued to accrue even when a TH plan was frozen by amendment?

Thanks

You do. Top-Heavy benefits continued to accrue through the end of the 2001 Plan Year on plans that were frozen before the 2002 Plan Year.

[John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA]

If the DB is part of a two plan combination and the plans state that the top heavy minimum is provided in the DB plan, then you probably still have a problem until something is done to change the language regarding which plan provides a TH minimum.

[Andy the Actuary]

If the DB is part of a two plan combination and the plans state that the top heavy minimum is provided in the DB plan, then you probably still have a problem until something is done to change the language regarding which plan provides a TH minimum.

How many have observed combo plans where the DB plan provided for the TH minimums to be provided by the DC plan and the DC plan provided for the TH minimums to be provided by the DB plan? Presumably, while you won't find this in Hoyle, the IRS would find it acceptable to give the TH minimums under the DC plan even though stated otherwise. The critical result is that the TH minimums would be credited.

[John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA]

Okay, I'm just pointing out that an amendment to freeze the DB plan does not really stop TH accruals if the terms of the plan(s) still require them to be provided due to the two plan (DB/DC) language issue, so please follow the terms of the plan and be careful to amend the DC plan too when you need to. Two, too, to, as well.

[Andy the Actuary]

Okay, I'm just pointing out that an amendment to freeze the DB plan does not really stop TH accruals if the terms of the plan(s) still require them to be provided due to the two plan (DB/DC) language issue, so please follow the terms of the plan and be careful to amend the DC plan too when you need to. Two, too, to, as well.

Agree.

[tymesup]

If the DB is part of a two plan combination and the plans state that the top heavy minimum is provided in the DB plan, then you probably still have a problem until something is done to change the language regarding which plan provides a TH minimum.

How many have observed combo plans where the DB plan provided for the TH minimums to be provided by the DC plan and the DC plan provided for the TH minimums to be provided by the DB plan? Presumably, while you won't find this in Hoyle, the IRS would find it acceptable to give the TH minimums under the DC plan even though stated otherwise. The critical result is that the TH minimums would be credited.

Yeah, I've seen this.

Coincidentally, I was telling a colleague today about a DB/DC combination where Eligible Employee was defined as somebody who wasn't in the other plan. And, the name of the first basemen was Who.