separate 415(c) limit if employer sponsors 401(a) and 403(b)

[Guest kprhok]

After hours of research I seem to still be having trouble finding a solid answer to this question:

If an educational institution sponsors BOTH a 401(a) plan and 403(b) plan, is the participant able to maximize his/her 402(g) contribution to the 403(b) plan, and still have the employer contribute the max permitted under 415 to the 401(a) plan? Stated another way, are there two 415 limits? Could the participant potentially have 46k plus 46k contributed to these two plans with one employer?

Thanks for feedback!!

[Guest Mr. Kite]

After hours of research I seem to still be having trouble finding a solid answer to this question:

If an educational institution sponsors BOTH a 401(a) plan and 403(b) plan, is the participant able to maximize his/her 402(g) contribution to the 403(b) plan, and still have the employer contribute the max permitted under 415 to the 401(a) plan? Stated another way, are there two 415 limits? Could the participant potentially have 46k plus 46k contributed to these two plans with one employer?

Thanks for feedback!!

Generally the plans are aggregated with respect to the 402(g) elective deferral limit, but are not aggregated for the 415© limit (because the participant, not the employer, is considered maintaining the 403(b) plan). However, if the participant is "in control of" the employer, then the plans are aggregated. See 1.415(f)-1(f) and (j)(ex. 6).

[Guest kprhok]

Thank you Mr. Kite!

[J Simmons]

Mr. Kite,

Do you think the rationale of Treas Reg § 1.415(f)-1(f) and (j)(ex. 6)--separate 415 limits because the employee 'maintains' the 403b plan--will continue beyond 2008 as the new 403b regs require for tax exclusion that contributions to a 403b contract be to one maintained pursuant to a 403b plan maintained by employer (Prop Treas Reg § 1.403(b)-3(b)(3))?

[Guest mjb]

Mr. Kite,

Do you think the rationale of Treas Reg § 1.415(f)-1(f) and (j)(ex. 6)--separate 415 limits because the employee 'maintains' the 403b plan--will continue beyond 2008 as the new 403b regs require for tax exclusion that contributions to a 403b contract be to one maintained pursuant to a 403b plan maintained by employer (Prop Treas Reg § 1.403(b)-3(b)(3))?

The 403b regs do not have any effect on the separate 415 limits for a 403b plan because there is no conflict between the 403b regs and the separate 415 limits. The employer, not the employee maintains the plan, but the employee, not the employer has more than 50% control of the 403b contract under IRC 415(h) which requires aggregation under 415 with the plans of any other employer in which the employee has more than 50% control.

IRC 415(k)(4) provides as follows: "For the purpose of this section [415] any annuity contract described in section 403(b) for the benefit of the participant shall be treated as a defined contribution plan maintained by each employer with respect to which the participant has the control required under sections (b) and © of section 414 (as modified by section (h)."