2009 AFTAP not yet determined

[tuni88]

Our 2008 AFTAP is between 70% and 80% as of 1-1-08 and we are under benefit restrictions now. (Basically we can't pay full lump sums.) If our actuary does not tell us what our 2009 AFTAP is before April 1, I understand that it is DEEMED to be 10% less, or between 60% and 70%, until such time as he calculates it - which must happen prior to October 1. (Please correct me if I got any of this stuff wrong.)

Then what? We expect the real 2009 AFTAP to tank pretty bad. Let's assume it ends up below 60%.

On what date do the under 60% benefit restrictions kick in? On October 1, 2009? On the date the actual calculation of the 2009 AFTAP is determined? In the meantime do we just continue operating under the 2008 restrictions?

I love this stuff. Not.

[Guest RBlaine]

Our 2008 AFTAP is between 70% and 80% as of 1-1-08 and we are under benefit restrictions now. (Basically we can't pay full lump sums.) If our actuary does not tell us what our 2009 AFTAP is before April 1, I understand that it is DEEMED to be 10% less, or between 60% and 70%, until such time as he calculates it - which must happen prior to October 1. (Please correct me if I got any of this stuff wrong.)

Then what? We expect the real 2009 AFTAP to tank pretty bad. Let's assume it ends up below 60%.

On what date do the under 60% benefit restrictions kick in? On October 1, 2009? On the date the actual calculation of the 2009 AFTAP is determined? In the meantime do we just continue operating under the 2008 restrictions?

I love this stuff. Not.

Until certfied by the actuary, your 2009 AFTAP is 2008 AFTAP - 10% on April 1, 2009. Your restrictions are based on whatever that number is until the actual AFTAP is certified. On the date the new AFTAP is certified, that number determines the restrictions from that date forward.

[JAY21]

Sounds like you hope the actuary doesn't certify it until much later in the year so at least the 50% lump sums can continue until the new 2009 AFTAP is certified. Maybe you can encourage the actuary to put your work at the bottom of his/her to do list.

[tuni88]

Yes, I think so. We'll probably instruct him to wait until the last minute (that's 9/30, right?).

Do we have to provide a notice as of 4/30 like we did last year? Nothing's changed - we're still between 60% and 80% - so does that notice have to be sent out again or do we just continue on as though nothing has happened? (Nothing HAS happened, even though we think we know what WILL happen.)

[chc93]

Yes, I think so. We'll probably instruct him to wait until the last minute (that's 9/30, right?).

We have heard that "instructing the timing of the AFTAP certification" *may* result in a fiduciary responsibility.

[mwyatt]

One thing is what your interest month setback period for 417? Has anyone else noticed that there is a "modest" 30-35% jump in the lump sums between the November 2008 and December 2008 rates on resulting lump sums? If you're trying to look to the common good, maybe having LS restrictions in place for 2009 isn't exactly the worst thing in the world (of course if you're a retiring participant, that 2.5% 30 year rate in the mix for December is an amazing windfall).

[tuni88]

Yes, I think so. We'll probably instruct him to wait until the last minute (that's 9/30, right?).

We have heard that "instructing the timing of the AFTAP certification" *may* result in a fiduciary responsibility.

Well, they'll have to catch me to flub me. Plus I've got the census data. It's around here somewhere. Hope I can find it amid all the rubble on my desk before this fall.