Determination Letter New Plan

[Gary]

I have seen new plans created, either an EGTRRA 401k plan or a GUST DB plan, that include tack on amendments for PPA, 415 regs and in the case of DB plans good faith EGTRRA amendment.

When filing for an initial DL would you just file the Plan document with or without the tack on amendments?

Thanks.

[Guest Sieve]

Submit with tack-ons.

[Gary]

Thanks, I agree.

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

Any submission must be of a document that includes all the applicable provisions of the appropriate Cumulative List. By you mentioning tack-on amendments, like EGTRRA, it sounds to me like you are submitting a GUST document, which does not have those necessary provisions. You are going to receive that submission back in your face from the IRS like an uncoordinated boy gets back a boomerang.

[SoCalActuary]

Any submission must be of a document that includes all the applicable provisions of the appropriate Cumulative List. By you mentioning tack-on amendments, like EGTRRA, it sounds to me like you are submitting a GUST document, which does not have those necessary provisions. You are going to receive that submission back in your face from the IRS like an uncoordinated boy gets back a boomerang.

Unless you have an Individually drafted plan, and you don't want to wait for the EGTRRA cycle.

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

Individually drafted plans just have a different cycle versus the EGTRRA VS cycle starting 5/2010. You still have to meet the rules I mentioned.

[SoCalActuary]

Individually drafted plans just have a different cycle versus the EGTRRA VS cycle starting 5/2010. You still have to meet the rules I mentioned.

Unless you choose to submit off-cycle.

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

You seem to agree that an on-cycle submission requires the provisions to be contained within the document, but not for an off-cycle submission. Do you have experience with this? Do you have a cite? My understanding is different.

[Gary]

I am submitting a VS plan and my understanding is that the GUST document is the most current VS document since the EGTRRA VS plans have not been approved yet.

So I would submit the GUST VS document with tack on amendments subsequent to GUST, such as 415, EGTRAA, PPA.

How else can or should a VS DB plan be submitted now?

Thanks.

[Blinky the 3-eyed Fish]

Should you submit? I don't know why you would. It would be an off-cycle submission, meaning the IRS will review all on-cycle submissions first. Why not wait for the EGTRRA VS period to begin on 5/1/2010? After all, you have the ability to change any document flaws retroactively should there be any.

If you really want to submit, you are correct they are not issuing DL letters for EGTRRA VS docs yet, so you are submitting an IDP. Do you not have any IDP plans (i.e. cash balance plans) so that you have access to IDP document software? That would be one way to incorporate all the provisions in the document. Of course, who knows, you could try to submit a GUST VS with tack-ons and see what the reviewer says. Of course by the time you know what they say, it will be well past 5/1/2010 I assure you.

[Gary]

I was not sure when the DB EGTRRA VS was to be approved, but your comments (which may be from a prior rev proc eg. 2007-44) indicate that an advisory opinion letter will be issued prior to 5/1/2010 thus beginning 5/1/2010 there will be VS DB EGTRRA plans to submit, whether created by Corbel or any other pre approved document preparer.