Short plan year and EFAST

[Guest JPIngold]

Relius released a technical update today regarding EFAST and short plan year filings. The way I read it, if the filing deadline for the final short year falls after 12/31/09, you have to use EFAST.

Anyone know what might happen to the couple of 5500's I filed several months ago on paper for plans that terminated in June, meaning their deadline would be 1/31/10?????? Should I be worried that they will say they weren't properly filed???

Thanks.

James

[Bird]

Sigh. I still think they'll take 'em (by 12/31) but for whatever reason don't want to make it official.

[pmacduff]

I'm with Bird. Tried to get an answer out of anyone at the ASPPA conference this year (IRS, DOL, etc.), but no one would commit.

I was in a session, however, where it was stated that any paper filing that was in before 12/31/2009 would be accepted and there was a DOL rep as a speaker for that same session.

I have rushed to get all my short plan year & termed plan returns in before this year end regardless of due date!!

[Guest VDBadmin]

From ASPA ASAP 09-40:

Short 2009 Plan Year Filings

At the ASPPA annual conference, Scott Albert (Chief, Division of Reporting Compliance/EBSA) confirmed that any plan that had a short 2009 plan year may file Form 5500 for that short plan year using the 2008 paper forms so long as the filing sent to Lawrence, Kansas is postmarked no later than December 31, 2009. Thereafter, all Form 5500 reports for 2009 plan years--short or otherwise--must be filed electronically using the 2009 forms and schedules and the new EFAST2 electronic filing system

[Tom Poje]

I'm not quite sure what the exact question is, or are you talking about filing forms on paper not using EFAST?

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq-efast2.html

Q3: Short plan year 2009 annual returns/reports (Form 5500 or Form 5500-SF) may be due before EFAST2 can receive them in January 2010. How do I file these?

Short 2009 plan year filers whose due date to submit their 2009 filing is before January 1, 2010 will be given an automatic extension to electronically file their complete Form 5500 annual return/report within 90 days after the 2009 filing system is available on the DOL web site. This special extension is being granted to encourage such filers to submit their 2009 returns/reports electronically under EFAST2. Filers who choose not to take advantage of the special extension must use plan year 2008 forms and instructions and submit their annual return/report on or before the due date for their filing under the current EFAST system (before EFAST2 and the 2009 Forms and instructions are available for filing in January 2010).

Q2: How can I file my timely plan year 2008 annual return/report if it is due after January 1, 2010?

You have several options:

You can electronically file a plan year 2008 annual return/report using EFAST2-approved third party software or IFILE beginning January 2010. EFAST2 is the new filing system.

You can electronically file a plan year 2008 annual return/report using EFAST-approved third party software until June 30, 2010. EFAST is the current filing system.

You can file a plan year 2008 annual return/report on paper through the current EFAST filing system, using EFAST-approved software or government-issued hand print forms, until October 15, 2010.

[pmacduff]

Tom - that's it - we were all talking about paper vs. the new required EFAST2...

[Tom Poje]

guess it will be interesting to see how the DOL will handle it. lets see, the few plans we apparently 'incorrectly filed' based on incorrect comments made by DOL officials have ceased operations, have no employees, barely managing to get a signature before the door closes and the lights go out.

after that point who do you bill before a late or incorrectly filed form?

oh - maybe they will consider those extenuating circumstances.

[Guest NPS Darren]

guess it will be interesting to see how the DOL will handle it. lets see, the few plans we apparently 'incorrectly filed' based on incorrect comments made by DOL officials have ceased operations, have no employees, barely managing to get a signature before the door closes and the lights go out.

after that point who do you bill before a late or incorrectly filed form?

oh - maybe they will consider those extenuating circumstances.

What is the position of filing on paper a short plan year 01/01/09 to 11/30/09 for a plan that terminated with all assets distributed in November?

Are many TPA's taking the chance that the EBSA will not accept these short plan year returns for short plan years ending after 05/31/09?

[pmacduff]

Those are the forms we are submitting prior to 12/31/2009 so that we don't have to use the EFAST2 electronic.

Most of my short year filings are for terminated plans and while I may know where the Sponsor/Trustee is right now, if I waited until later in 2010 and also had to have them setup for EFAST2 and electronic filing, it would be a nightmare. Take a LOT of my time and the Sponsor, too...I think we know who would get the short end of that!

[chc93]

We have already filed a few final "2009" Form 5500's in the last few months, as soon as all assets were distributed, in "paper form" using the 2008 Form 5500. The "due dates" for these plans are after 12/31/09. We intend to file a couple more like this before 12/31/09. Hopefully, Scott Albert's (DOL) comments at the ASPPA annual conference holds up.

[Jim Chad]

Has anyone seen anything in writing saying that the 2008 paper form, filed for short years with due date after 12-31-09, will not be rejected?

Or even heard anything new?

[Tom Poje]

we had one rejected - unfortunately client didn't file before 12/31/2009.

had another rejected, not sure when that one was filed.

Both for TPAs.

the first is real interesting. (or maybe distressing)

TPA called DOL and explained that the business no longer exists and the owner (age 65, computer illiterate, secretary did all that type of work) doesn't have the computer to log in.

response: they can use the library or even stop in at the TPAs office. if computer illiterate, they can also call the DOL for help about getting registered for the siganture.

counter response: owner moved to Florida, TPA business is in Michigan

DOL response: guess they can't stop in. but not going to budge on the issue. has to be via computer.

gee whiz, I did service supprot for awhile and remember how difficult it was at times to walk someone through computer stuff over the phone. and also being on the other end asking for help. hard enough when you know something about the computer and have used one. this could be interesting when the DOl has to deal with someone who has little or knowledge about computers.

.........

if the company no longer exists, and there are no assets left in the plan or business, but no final 5500 is filed who pays the penalties?

[Bill Presson]

We had a similar experience to Tom. Had a client terminate their plan and we provided their 5500 last summer. They waited until the end of December to file. Since the DOL received it AFTER December 31, 2009, we had to file electronically. Since our system isn't completely set up yet (and we hadn't planned on using it till sometime in April or May), we had to use the standard EFAST2 system.

Wasn't horrible, but got to spend some extra time that we'll never fully recover.

[Bird]

Bill, not to make you feel bad, but they incorrectly rejected some that were mailed by 12/31 and received after; it might have been resubmitted as is...there was an asap on it.

Ed

[chc93]

Bill, not to make you feel bad, but they incorrectly rejected some that were mailed by 12/31 and received after; it might have been resubmitted as is...there was an asap on it.

Ed

An ASPPA ASAP indicated that it had to be postmarked by 12/31/09, which is what we did, in addition to using certified mail. We had one postmarked 12/30/09, and EFAST received on 01/05/10. So far, no rejection letter...

[Bill Presson]

Bill, not to make you feel bad, but they incorrectly rejected some that were mailed by 12/31 and received after; it might have been resubmitted as is...there was an asap on it.

Ed

We had conversations with them. I don't really blame the DOL. I blame the silly client that held the return for six months.

[K2retire]

TPA called DOL and explained that the business no longer exists and the owner (age 65, computer illiterate, secretary did all that type of work) doesn't have the computer to log in.

response: they can use the library or even stop in at the TPAs office. if computer illiterate, they can also call the DOL for help about getting registered for the siganture.

counter response: owner moved to Florida, TPA business is in Michigan

DOL response: guess they can't stop in. but not going to budge on the issue. has to be via computer.

gee whiz, I did service supprot for awhile and remember how difficult it was at times to walk someone through computer stuff over the phone. and also being on the other end asking for help. hard enough when you know something about the computer and have used one. this could be interesting when the DOl has to deal with someone who has little or knowledge about computers.

We heard on a DOL web cast that they plan to add 4 staff members to handle the extra phone calls to help people with this. Anyone else think that will be inadequate?