Church plans must still come under a code section,

[katieinny]

There are lots of references to "church plans" out there, but am I right in thinking that they must all be set up under some section of the code, such as a 403(b) church plan, 401(a) church plan, etc? So, that if someone starts talking about a church plan, it's important to determine what type of church plan we're discussing because 403(b) regs aren't the same as those under 401(a). Can there be a 457 church plan? I know that churches can be electing or non-electing when it comes to ERISA, and that in many cases they don't even need to have a plan document, but doesn't there have to be some set of rules to go by other than saying they have a church plan?

[TLGeer]

There are lots of references to "church plans" out there, but am I right in thinking that they must all be set up under some section of the code, such as a 403(b) church plan, 401(a) church plan, etc? So, that if someone starts talking about a church plan, it's important to determine what type of church plan we're discussing because 403(b) regs aren't the same as those under 401(a). Can there be a 457 church plan? I know that churches can be electing or non-electing when it comes to ERISA, and that in many cases they don't even need to have a plan document, but doesn't there have to be some set of rules to go by other than saying they have a church plan?

Yikes! This set of topics is huge and almost impossible to answer, in a comprehensible way, with theoretical statements.

You are right about the plan having to come under a code section. First you have to know what kind of plan you want to talk about. So, is it a 401(k), a 403(b), a 457(b)? Each has different substantive rules and each uses different meanings of the slang term church plan, so you don't even know what church-related issues are present until you know what kind of plan you are considering.

As to 457, 457(e)(13) says:

"Special rule for churches The term ''eligible employer'' shall not include a church (as defined in section 3121(w)(3)(A)) or qualified church-controlled organization (as defined in section 3121(w)(3)(B))."

NOTE: Because of the complexity of these rules, you cannot rely on these, or any other, answers you get on bulletin boards. Understanding and applying the rules is extremely difficult, and planning with them (i.e., how do I select the right form(s) of plan(s)) takes time and experience.

If you would like to contact me directly, please feel free to do so. I will try to point you in the right directions.

Tom Geer

[katieinny]

Hi, Tom. Me again. You've confirmed my belief that when someone asks me questions about a church plan, I need to know what type of church plan they are talking about. I was starting to second guess what I thought I knew.